Alleged College Park Shooter Underwent Background Check for One Gun Purchase
Dayvon M. Green did not have to undergo a background check for a second gun under Maryland gun laws that Gov. Martin O'Malley would like changed.
By Rashee Raj Kumar, Allen Etzler and Kelyn Soong, Capital News Service
Under Maryland law, Dayvon M. Green, the University of Maryland graduate student identified as the shooter in last week's apparent murder-suicide in College Park, had to undergo a state background check to purchase the 9mm handgun used to kill his roommate.
But Green, who was schizophrenic, according to reports, did not have to undergo a state background check to purchase the semi-automatic Uzi .22 caliber rifle police found fully loaded next to his body.
The tragic events in College Park have raised questions about the effectiveness of state gun laws in preventing the sale of deadly firearms to those suffering from mental illness.
Before the College Park shooting, Gov. Martin O'Malley proposed changes to the state's gun laws that could prevent mentally ill people from obtaining firearms. But it's not clear that those changes would have stopped Green from purchasing the 9mm handgun and Uzi rifle.
Currently, state law treats the purchase of the two guns Green owned differently. The Uzi rifle, an "unregulated firearm," does not require a state background check. The 9mm handgun, a "regulated firearm," requires a state background check that reviews limited mental health information. Police said Green purchased both guns legally.
Under state law, people with certain mental disorders who also have a history of violent behavior are prohibited from buying guns.
People who have been hospitalized for more than 30 consecutive days in a mental health facility—including public or private clinics, hospitals or institutions—are also prohibited from buying guns. But the state background check system run by the Maryland State Police only checks mental health records at public facilities, not private ones.
The state background check begins when a customer buys a "regulated firearm" from a licensed gun dealer and fills out a Maryland State Police form that asks about criminal history, drug use and mental health problems.
The form asks, “Have you ever spent more than 30 consecutive days in any medical institution for treatment of a mental disorder or disorders?”
If the customer answers yes, the sale is blocked, though the customer can still get the gun if he or she submits a note from a doctor saying clearance to own a firearm had been processed within the last month.
The customer's word is not good enough for state police. As part of the background screening process, they run the customer's name against 17 databases that check things like criminal history.
One court database provides information about people who were determined to be mentally unfit to stand trial in Maryland. They only non-judicial database police check that includes mental health information is maintained by the Maryland Department of Health and Mental Hygiene, according to Maryland State Police Sgt. Marc Black.
That database provides the state police information on people who were hospitalized for a mental health issue in a public state institution in Maryland for more than 30 days, according to Patrick Dooley, chief of staff for the state Department of Health and Mental Hygiene. People who were treated at a private institution -- or were treated in a public institution for less than 30 days -- will not show up in the portion of the database the state police can see, he said.
Black said that state police do not check any other state databases that provide mental health information.
“We check the Department of Health and Mental Hygiene, and anything in that database we utilize,” he said.
Details of Green’s mental health history and treatment are slowly coming to light. The Prince George's Police Department said earlier this week that Green had suffered from an unnamed mental illness for at least a year.
Unnamed police sources told The Washington Post that Green had schizophrenia. The Gazette, citing unnamed police sources, reported that Green “self-admitted to a mental facility in 2009 and had a history of schizophrenia and bipolar disorder." It's unclear whether Green went to a public or private mental health facility and how long he stayed. A Prince George's police spokeswoman declined to comment on the investigation Friday.
The Maryland State Police also process the federal background check, which is conducted by the FBI when a customer purchases a regulated firearm. The FBI background screening checks the customer's name against three databases, two of which review criminal and court information.
The third database is called the National Instant Criminal Background Check System Index. The database was created specifically for the NICS and maintains information supplied by local, state and federal agencies on those prohibited by law from possessing a firearm, said Stephen G. Fischer, Jr., of the FBI’s Criminal Justice Information Services Division in Clarksburg, WV.
The database includes some mental health information provided by states, but the level of detail varies from state to state.
Fischer said that if a prospective customer’s background check hits on one of three databases, police conduct a follow up investigation to determine whether to allow the sale to go through.
Under Maryland law, Green only needed to pass a federal background check to purchase the semi-automatic Uzi .22 caliber rifle. He did not need to pass a state background check.
One of the weapons Green had was a variation of the original Uzi submachine gun, developed by Israeli Army Capt. Uziel Gal. Uzis earned an outsized reputation as a dangerous gun when they were featured in Hollywood blockbusters like "The Terminator," "Robocop" and "Die Hard with a Vengeance."
The Uzi .22 caliber rifle is designed to look like traditional Uzis, but it does not pack the same punch. It uses a .22 Long Rifle cartridge, a popular caliber of ammunition among small-game hunters.
"It's the least powerful gun you can buy," said Michael Faith, marketing director at Hendershot's Sporting Goods in Hagerstown. “It’s suitable for hunting squirrel or groundhog.”
In response to a trend of gun manufacturers dressing up less powerful weapons to look like assault weapons, the Maryland State Police released a memo in November 2010 stating that guns like the semi-automatic Uzi .22 caliber rifle owned by Green did not require a state background check to purchase.
“A firearm that is cosmetically similar alone does not make it a 'copy' of an assault weapon,” the memo said. “Therefore, the Maryland State Police Firearms Registration Section will no longer require an individual to complete an Application to Purchase a Regulated Firearm...for a semiautomatic .22 caliber rim fire rifle that is only cosmetically similar to an assault weapon.”
Under O'Malley's proposed gun control legislation, the classification of the semi-automatic Uzi .22 caliber rifle as an unregulated firearm would not change. Mentally ill people would still be prohibited from owning the weapon if they had a history of violent behavior or had been confined to a public or private mental health facility for more than 30 consecutive days. They would still not be required to pass a state background check to obtain it.
The governor has proposed several changes that could limit access to guns by the mentally ill, though it’s unclear if those changes would have prevented Green from purchasing the handgun or the Uzi rifle.
Under his proposal, both private and public mental health facilities in Maryland would have to report to the FBI's National Instant Criminal Background Check System patients who were voluntarily or involuntarily admitted -- and stayed for more than 30 consecutive days.
The facilities would also have to report if someone was involuntarily committed—for any length of time—if a court determined he or she could not safely possess a firearm. If that person already owned firearms, he or she would be forced to turn their weapons over to authorities.
Joshua Sharfstein, secretary of the state Department of Health and Mental Hygiene, who helped shape the mental health aspects of the legislation, said lawmakers were "seriously considering" amending the proposal to prevent people who were involuntarily committed to a mental health facility from owning a gun, regardless of whether a judge determined they could safely own a firearm.
State lawmakers debating O'Malley's gun control legislation said they were examining the 30-day threshold for mental health reporting.
"There’s certainly people who spend a lot more than 30 days in a mental hospital who pose no threat whatsoever, and then there are people who never set foot in a mental hospital and (have) no criminal record but are a great danger," said Sen. Jamie Raskin, D-Montgomery County, a co-sponsor of O'Malley's gun control legislation. "So, really what I think the Judicial Proceedings Committee is focused on is figuring out methods of identifying people who do pose a threat to others regardless of whether they have spent time in a hospital or not."
Delegate Sam Arora, D-Montgomery County, who co-sponsors the legislation, said that he was worried that people would avoid psychiatric treatment if the threshold were lowered.
"If the law were to lower the threshold to five days would it be effective? Maybe you would capture people with short stays but the system would internalize itself for people to avoid treatment," he said.
Capital News Service reporters Mary Tablante, Julia Maldonado and Lucas High contributed to this report.
william bittner
12:54 pm on Monday, February 18, 2013
Checking his mental illness background would have done no good since the FBI lost all its files on millions of mentally ill several weeks ago. We need to check the mental wellness of the cops. look at the LAPD, 7 officers opened fire on two unarmed women citizens sending them to the hospital with gunshot wounds. they should have been charged with attempted murder. and we want armed police officers guarding our children in schools.
Sanchez
1:32 pm on Monday, February 18, 2013
If we had, and we should, mental health background checks on the politicians who are working to take our rights, we would have much more freedom and far fewer nutjobs called Congressman and Senator.
tom
2:03 pm on Monday, February 18, 2013
The incident of the LAPD officers was a result of confusion, poor communication and probably some incompetence as well. It was most certainly not attempted murder. As for armed police officers in school, it's the NRA that proposed that.
behr928
12:49 am on Tuesday, February 19, 2013
sanchez that is one of the most intelegent things i have read on here in ages
funnyguy
1:15 pm on Monday, February 18, 2013
"7 days?? but I'm angry now!!"
So if I read correctly in order to purchase a handgun or most rifles in Maryland you have to do copious amount's of paper work, forfeit your personal mental health records, go through 17 background check's', go through an FBI background check, take a firearm safety course, register your gun with the state, then wait 7 days to pick up the gun so you can "cool off"?? No standard capacity magazines allowed, no high capacity magazines allowed, no open carry, no concealed carry. All for a little gun that fire's only 1 bullet for 1 pull of the trigger?!?
Goodness, that must really cut down on gun crime! Not like we have 360+ murders EVERY YEAR within bmo's small CITY LIMITS or anything! .....Aw hell, I said something bad about bmo. We all know what that must mean...
Virginia residents have freedom's and liberty that Marylander's couldnt even dream of having. No 7 day wait, no hippy ban's on magazine's. Hell, a VA resident can roll to another state and buy a gun!!! Goodness, must be like Iraq down there!!
Nope, chuck testa.
behr928
11:26 pm on Monday, February 18, 2013
one of the reasons we are leaving the state -- this place is crazy and there is no freedom -- you cant even cut a tree down without paying for a permit and having a pro do it
behr928
11:28 pm on Monday, February 18, 2013
and these idiots wonder why things like boat sales are down - is there a place where sanity rienes?
Corbin Dallas Multipass
10:12 am on Tuesday, February 19, 2013
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlMwc1c0HRQ
Sanchez
1:23 pm on Monday, February 18, 2013
"Under state law, people with certain mental disorders who also have a history of violent behavior are prohibited from buying guns. "
Exactly! Who has proposed any expansion of the SOURCES of the reporting into the data base that would have prevented this man form purchasing a regulated firearm? Only mental heath doctors or general practitioners?
What kind of "mental illness" qualifies as a bar to firearm ownership? Mild depression or infrequent anxiety? Bi-polar or senility? Do we extend it to the elderly who may not have their full faculties.
This is the UZI 22LR rifle. I am very surprised this is not on the Handgun Roster list. I believe they all have a threaded barrel and possible another mean ugly nasty looking feature like a collapsing stock.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_11/375242_.html
It is no more dangerous powerful accurate or deadly than this one.
http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14058&stc=1&d=1187831510
The above handgun is a S&W Model 41 and IS on the Handgun Roster as a "regulated firearm". This is one of the best loved 22LR target pistols and costs just under $1000 in very good condition. The UZI 22LR is a novelty firearm to most and costs about $600 used.
They fire the exact same round. This is a great example of how arbitrary the existing firearm laws are.
From 20 round mags to 10. Where did that number come from? Why not 12? or as NY, 7?
Sanchez
1:23 pm on Monday, February 18, 2013
This case is a perfect illustration of the arbitrary and random nature of our firearm laws and how little effect they have on those so intent on doing harm to others.
We must punish severely those who USE firearms in crimes, not those who have not.
behr928
11:35 pm on Monday, February 18, 2013
punish the user (HARDER!!!) not the owner
Sanchez
1:28 pm on Monday, February 18, 2013
Here is another handgun on the Handgun Roster list as a "regulated firearm".
http://www.carlwalther.com/images/gsp_expert_2661951.jpg
http://www.carlwalther.com/gsp.htm
This firearm is one of the best competitive target handguns on the market. It costs over $1700 bare bones. Anyone using this to create "gun violence"?
tom
2:09 pm on Monday, February 18, 2013
Firearm legislation needs to be studied and nationwide, rather than patchwork regulations which vary from state to state. It should cover all firearms, not just assault weapons. If someone's mental illness or criminal background makes him dangerous, he's dangerous with any gun, not just an assault weapon. Background checks are not the total solution, but they're an important component of comprehensive and rational legislation. Of course there are many who consider any legislation as a first step toward confiscation of guns, a police state and numerous other paranoid theories.
Sanchez
6:00 pm on Monday, February 18, 2013
"Of course there are many who consider any legislation as a first step toward confiscation of guns,"
Where you been dude? That first step has long passed in many states. If you believe the next law is the first on the way, you are as uninformed as it gets in this issue.
How can you justify the violation of the 5th Amendment and the 4th Amendment in order to attack the 2nd Amendment?
Confiscation laws are already on their way to legislatures. Please get better informed.
behr928
1:04 am on Tuesday, February 19, 2013
tom - please wake up - you sound like a reasonable person - gun regulation does nothing to prevent gun violence - it only regulates gun ownership - here in md you can only buy 1 handgun a month - how does that stop crime when if you are a criminal you cant buy anyway?? it only stops me who has never even had parking ticket from getting a good deal on a gun i have wanted for a waiting period of at least 30 days and maybe longer --as a US citezen you should be fighting for my right under the constitution as i would for your right under the constitution even if it did not affect me -- it is still part of the peoples contract with the government - please wake up and dont listen to the hipe
Chris W
7:25 am on Tuesday, February 19, 2013
Tom,
You live in a constitutional republic. All powers not specifically enumerated to the federal government in the constitution are retained by the people and/or states.
Buck Harmon
9:58 am on Tuesday, February 19, 2013
The Constitution needs to be studied nationwide...through the public curriculum at every level...should be required at the advanced education level as well....
this would without question minimize the need for gun related studies, and all in our Country would be safer with this education..
CP
2:47 pm on Monday, February 18, 2013
Now what Libs? LOL.
radarradar
7:18 am on Saturday, February 23, 2013
'preventing the sale of deadly firearms'. Oh, as opposed to NON-deadly firearms. It is truly amusing (yet sad) to see liberals write about guns...
Steve
3:14 pm on Monday, February 18, 2013
You are laughing because two productive young adults were murdered???
That's sick.
CP
3:29 pm on Monday, February 18, 2013
You wish!
behr928
10:42 pm on Monday, February 18, 2013
you are the one that's sick friend my cousin was killed by someone"mentally disturbed" -- hes back on the streets on " medication" --- shes dead ! now who is or should i say was more productive to society
behr928
10:44 pm on Monday, February 18, 2013
by the way she wasnt shot she was strangled bt still missing at our christmass
CP
9:48 am on Tuesday, February 19, 2013
Don't blame me for the Liberal justice system.
wait a minute
3:54 pm on Monday, February 18, 2013
Actually, the 7 day wait comes from a time all Maryland gun shops mailed regulated paperwork to the state police. The legislation still remains even after almost all dealers use a fax machine to send and receive paperwork.
"Cool off" is just a widespread media term.
amark
4:24 pm on Monday, February 18, 2013
The one who should have had to undergo a background check was Obama in 2008. Unfortunately the media fawned over him and the average voter knew nothing about him beyond his ability to read from a teleprompter. The same thing happened in 2012. The media covered up Benghazi, played down the bad economy and once again dumbed down the electorate. Now he and people like Owe'malley are systematically taking away the rights of the people.
tom
5:11 pm on Monday, February 18, 2013
They seem to have take away your ability to think rationally. You better learn to deal with it for the next 4 years--at least.
FIFA_archived
5:16 pm on Monday, February 18, 2013
amark, have you noticed you have been losing elections. Progressives, as a matter of fact, are smarter than you. Deal with it. The best definition of idiocy is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. The majority have you guys figured it out and you are not listening. The same old arguments don't work. You guys are like a broken down old car, it just doesn't run. You need to wake up, the majority is not with you and they are getting bigger.
Honeygo Hal
5:28 pm on Monday, February 18, 2013
Oh, gee, there was that "W" guy with his Darth Vader VP - You should tune into MSNBC tonight at 9:00 PM for a reminder of what he got us into with lies...
amark
5:34 pm on Monday, February 18, 2013
Honeygo Hal says: Oh, gee, there was that "W" guy with his Darth Vader VP - You should tune into MSNBC tonight at 9:00 PM for a reminder of what he got us into with lies.
Oh sure I will watch Rachel Madcow's "documentary". No thanks, I will pass on the propoganda.
amark
5:41 pm on Monday, February 18, 2013
Fifa, you "progressives" (leftists, marxists, statists, etc) may be winning elections and indeed that is true. It is also true that you are doing so by making big government promises that are in the process of leading us down the road to destruction. Maybe not in your lifetime (you say you are old), maybe not in mine either, but at some point we will pay the piper and what will happen then? Let me tell you it won't be a pretty sight. But live it up while you can, enjoy the pyrrhic victories, all the while taking us into the abyss.
FIFA_archived
5:48 pm on Monday, February 18, 2013
amark, why you lose is not because of propaganda, it is because you refuse to see facts. The war was sold under false pretenses, that is a fact. If you want to win, follow the facts and stop following the money.
Honeygo Hal
8:10 pm on Monday, February 18, 2013
amark, every time you repeat a Fox News perspective or a Rush Limbaugh rant you are passing on the propaganda...
behr928
10:36 pm on Monday, February 18, 2013
here here amark
Chris W
7:29 am on Tuesday, February 19, 2013
If we were paying for all the free stuff that Democrats are giving away, Republicans would be wining. That is why the Senate has not passed a budget in years, they don't want to go on record and lose their seats.
Buck Harmon
11:38 am on Tuesday, February 19, 2013
FIFA, You are the one that's trapped in the illusion that the Government has created...you need to wake up...with a few smacks to the cheeks...you know what I mean ...REALLY wake up...Our Country is headed the way of Rome and you are in denial....sheeple denial...the kind that provides the government with unwarranted perceived power.. The focus on today is getting old fast...as we sink to new lows.
radarradar
7:20 am on Saturday, February 23, 2013
Well stated!...
Steve
4:39 pm on Monday, February 18, 2013
What right have either one of them taken from you?
Name one. Just one.
amark
4:47 pm on Monday, February 18, 2013
Too easy Stevie and it's not just me it's the rights of all Americans, Obamacare is in the process of violating everyone's rights (religious liberties, dr.-patient relationship) and that's if you are lucky enough to not lose it as 7 million are estimated to. These gun control proposals vioalate the 2nd amendment even though that doesn't bother you. He violates the Constitution every day. Especially the 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th and 10th amendments.
Steve
4:55 pm on Monday, February 18, 2013
So basically you are just flapping your gums. The President and the Governor haven't taken one right from you.
Turn off the Limbaugh.....
behr928
10:52 pm on Monday, February 18, 2013
the right to free speech - theres one i can name at lease tree more if that one didnt hit
Steve
4:42 pm on Monday, February 18, 2013
The Us should eliminate the NFA Trusts. You can setup a trust and eliminate almost all the background checks and a lot of the other regulations.
http://ezinearticles.com/?Why-Do-I-Need-An-NFA-Firearms-Trust?&id=4240545
behr928
10:33 pm on Monday, February 18, 2013
god help us and this country -- you're an idiot
Outraged
6:05 pm on Monday, February 18, 2013
he bottom line is we need to ensure people who have been diagnosed with mental health issues are receiving proper care. If a person fails to comply with their medication regimen they can be a danger to themselves and members of the public. Their inability to cope with day to day to day issues and stress is a no brainer. The black market does not require a background check, only money. Many people have several hospitalizations less than 30 days. Some people may be on the wrong medication. The legislation has to cover all loose ends. Good luck. The bottom line is we need better services for persons who are ill.
Outraged
6:07 pm on Monday, February 18, 2013
The bottom line is we need to ensure people who have been diagnosed with mental health issues are receiving proper care. If a person fails to comply with their medication regimen they can be a danger to themselves and members of the public. Their inability to cope with day to day issues and stress is a no brainer. The black market does not require a background check, only money. Many people have several hospitalizations less than 30 days. Some people may be on the wrong medication. The legislation has to cover all loose ends. Good luck. The bottom line is we need better services for persons who are ill.
behr928
10:21 pm on Monday, February 18, 2013
you know it is absolutely amazing to me how some people will argue the freedom and rights of the first amendment and argue to the death what rights it preserves but when it comes t the second - they say oh well you dont need that gun for hunting -- the first and the scond and the third amedments for that matter were all part of the contract with the government - known as the bill of rights to the Constitution - to protect against tyranny and over powerment of the government over its people - continuaally we have seen the the usupation of the first amendment through political correctness arguements - and you have "hate crimes" which are somehow worse than any crime -- now its you dont need that to hunt with --nowher in the second ammendment does it even refer to hunting or protection of your family - it was put in to protect against tyrranny!!! read the constitution and the bill of rights you idiots !!!!!
behr928
10:25 pm on Monday, February 18, 2013
please forgive my spelling
Kongo
10:28 pm on Monday, February 18, 2013
Welcome to Patch, behr. Good comments. Don't mind Steve there, he's just our local village idiot.
behr928
11:03 pm on Monday, February 18, 2013
thanks kongo -- you can only listen to these people for so long
Steve
10:26 pm on Monday, February 18, 2013
You need to read the Constitution instead of listening to Limbaugh
behr928
11:55 pm on Monday, February 18, 2013
As ratified by the States and authenticated by Thomas Jefferson, Secretary of State:
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
behr928
11:00 pm on Monday, February 18, 2013
As ratified by the States and authenticated by Thomas Jefferson, Secretary of State:
"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
ummmm necessary to the security of a FREE STATE ---- hmmmmmm wonder what they meant by that
DARRELL HAMMERBACKER
11:01 pm on Monday, February 18, 2013
Steve, you need to read the Constitution and stop acting like a Tree Hugger Dude.Remember,O'Malley and Obama think they're King George.
behr928
11:02 pm on Monday, February 18, 2013
and actually i do have a copy -- do you?
Steve
11:39 pm on Monday, February 18, 2013
What a bunch of old Illiterate White guys. Neither one of you have actually read the Constitution. You anti government types AKA.. Angry Old White Men should be shot on site for treason.
"A Well Regulated Militia' was defined in the day of "Able Body White Men Between the Age of 18 and 45"
You Old Farts wouldn't have qualified.
Kongo
11:46 pm on Monday, February 18, 2013
Go climb back into Mom's basement and suckle mommy's teat, Stanker Steve. You're an idiot and a bore with your repetitive delusions.
Kongo
11:47 pm on Monday, February 18, 2013
Crazy idiot.
funnyguy
11:56 pm on Monday, February 18, 2013
"The right OF THE PEOPLE to keep and bare arm's shall not be infringed".
behr928
12:09 am on Tuesday, February 19, 2013
should we be shot with an assault rifle or a shot gun so we can run away to fight another day if we are not close enough to be killed my god you are ignornant - the constitution was invented to protect people from over powerfull government -- without the bill of rights there would be no "united states" -- maybe you should learn ssome history -- also - how do yoou know how old i am -- and if i am betweemn the age
YOU spesify can i own any weapon i want" by the way i'm not white and i find that comment offensive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and i have a pocket constitution do you?
behr928
12:15 am on Tuesday, February 19, 2013
kongo -- this guy is not the village idiot he dominates the state!
behr928
12:18 am on Tuesday, February 19, 2013
steve you really need help and i think i'll report you to thehealth dept - then you wont be able town any guns and the "people" will be watching you for saying i should be shot
behr928
12:20 am on Tuesday, February 19, 2013
i never said you should be shot but i do think hou need help
behr928
12:24 am on Tuesday, February 19, 2013
also you mention the age group but not what they were for ---- hmmmmmmmm god - idiot
funnyguy
12:09 am on Tuesday, February 19, 2013
A pistol, rifle, shotgun or all 3 are the civilian's ONLY true line of defense against murder, rape, assault, robbery, war, natural disaster, who the hell knows what. People think that crime happens in some far away land, and not to them or their family. guess what it doesnt. It happens to normal people like you and I, and if you think the cops or FEMA are going to protect you you got another thing coming! People think "Oh, the cops will get here in under 2 minute's". First off that is bullcrap, last time I called 911 in AACO it rang and rang! It was a minute plus before I even got on the phone with anyone. 2 minutes is an extremely long time when someone is literally stabbing you or beating you unconscious.
Same goes for a school. 2 minutes is a LONG ass time to wait for the cops. and the only reason you call the cops is because you know they have a gun. If you knew the art teacher had a gun he would be your BFF during a shooting, but just a crazy gun nut otherwise. We need armed guard's in school's
Especially in rural bel air. You got 50 million cops up there, but ever since they got rid of the WAWA on rt1 and main the response time im sure has gone down dramatically
behr928
12:32 am on Tuesday, February 19, 2013
whats wrong with teachers having weapons - we trust them with education of our kids which is much more dangerous than guns if they go through the same checks - whicch are crazy as other citezens why not let them carry -- we are catering to th 1%
Chris W
7:36 am on Tuesday, February 19, 2013
I'm all for added security in schools, but a policy of arming teachers is just silly. Now if they as an individual want to conceal carry that is another issue.
1ke
5:23 am on Tuesday, February 19, 2013
I fink kongo and behr928 and B.O> r da sane persin
amark
7:31 am on Tuesday, February 19, 2013
Behr Steve suffers from a mental disorder called extreme leftism. He also has a case of Owe'malley worship and non stop racism. These unfortunate conditions lead him to go on these nonsensical rants.
tom
8:20 am on Tuesday, February 19, 2013
This discussion has changed from civil discussion and disagreement to one of juvenile name calling. Some of you people don't seem to recognize that we are all Americans and despite our differences, we want what's best for the country and its citizens. I'm a veteran with an honorable discharge, which is evidence that I'm not a traitor. Just because I advocate well reasoned firearm legislation which is properly enforced doesn't mean I want your guns confiscated. Everyone is free to disagree, but is it really necessary to be so immature and stoop to name calling and ridicule?
Buck Harmon
10:27 am on Tuesday, February 19, 2013
From the Constitutional perspective...All laws that are in violation of the Constitution are to be considered non-laws..
The Constitution of the United States is in fact the highest law of the land... whether you believe it or not..
The folks that choose to comply with non-laws only provide excessive power and control to the corrupt government...
Bigger government with excessive power and control, created by the use of non-law would be similar to the Roman Empire...this is the reason that we are a Constitutional Republic...when we are not able to preserve and maintain our Constitutional Republic because of the size and power of government, situations such as these with which we are dealing will increase, and can only become more destructive.. Not exactly a plan for peace and prosperity if you ask me...
Let the current example of our direction be the guide..
1ke
8:48 am on Tuesday, February 19, 2013
Verbal abuse is absolutely required, tom. You seem like a reasonable man, so let me explain a little. Extended discourse is not encouraged either, only copy and paste. Hey, you'll catch on.
Here are a few tips:
No respect is given to theories or practice of liberalism, which was responsible for taming predatory crony-capitalism early in the 20th century, regenerating the American way of life post-Depression, rallying the Free World to engage WWII, and ensuring equal rights--on the books at least--for Americans of all races and creeds. That's the rule.
Taxes already the lowest in the industrialized world need to be cut.
260 million guns are not enough and 30,000 gunshot deaths a year are collateral damage.
Race has nothing to do with institutional power wielded by the White and the wealthy to the disadvantage of the poor Black and Latino minorities. If you mention that, you are the racist.
Cities--despite the fact that they have enabled humans to lead productive lives instead of waking to catch breakfast for 6000 years--are bad ideas. Only the burbs matter.
Finally, mix in some God-and-Country to support your every claim, even if it is fantastic and phoney.
Welcome to Patch.
amark
8:54 am on Tuesday, February 19, 2013
1ke How you were able to turn that question into a push for radical leftism is beyond me. Nice slight of hand.
Buck Harmon
10:35 am on Tuesday, February 19, 2013
And this would be the reason 1ke chooses to remain in hiding...hidden from his true identity...he's not really sure, or confident about the things that he shares...understood..
FIFA_archived
11:18 am on Tuesday, February 19, 2013
We sure know that Buck is not hiding anymore! <[;-))
Buck Harmon
11:43 am on Tuesday, February 19, 2013
I like the threads that show the funny little red face on the ping pong ball just before your fake name FIFA...)
FIFA_archived
11:47 am on Tuesday, February 19, 2013
Please Google "Buck Harmon Facebook" and see who is always near the top on the search.
Have you fixed that flea bite problem Buckwheat? Never mind, it probably goes away on its own
Buck Harmon
11:56 am on Tuesday, February 19, 2013
FIFI, You have gone off topic again with some twisted intent to damage...you know that the page of your creation is no mine ...but it's a convenient way for you to surrender the actual topic... typical fifi bad behavior...address the topic you little Patch Pigeon..
1ke
9:06 am on Tuesday, February 19, 2013
No sleight of hand and certainly not slight. I have known, studied and quarreled with radical leftists. They make some strong points.
Could you explain what you think radical leftism is? Note that I am not asking you to explain what you think it threatens.
What do you think it asserts?
amark
9:57 am on Tuesday, February 19, 2013
Thanks for the spelling corrections 1ke, that sure makes you look smart. Generally people don't correct other people's spelling/grammar/punctuation on the internet as it is commonly understood that many make errors in typing. I'm so impressed.
Anyway, as for far left, it's very simple. One who advocates for a larger role for the state over the individual (your social contract). That can be one who resticts freedom through oppressive gun control measures. One who confiscates more and more of the hard earned money of people for failed social welfare programs. That is just two. Your comment about the lowest taxes in the world is a joke my friend. We have the highest corporate tax and I'm sure you would like to take it higher. You are a statist while I believe in the individual and the Constitution.
Buck Harmon
10:36 am on Tuesday, February 19, 2013
What would you consider to be balance 1ke..?
Buck Harmon
11:58 am on Tuesday, February 19, 2013
Any thoughts about how balance might be achieved 1ke..?
1ke
10:19 am on Tuesday, February 19, 2013
You started out strong ("one who advocates...") and petered out, amark.
Confiscates? Restricts? These are not even liberal values, much less leftist.
If that individual that you believe in is just you, I can understand your perspective if you invested in guns, receive or plan not to receive any government sponsored benefits.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/03/business/economy/03rates.html?_r=0
We should both sharpen our arguments on that account.
Individual tax rates are ridiculously low by word standards
Brook Hubbard
10:50 am on Tuesday, February 19, 2013
People seem to be confusing sociopolitical liberal values with economical left-wing values. These are two different axes used in political models and they work independent of each other.
The left-right spectrum is one of socialism versus capitalism; in other words, whether everyone should have an equal slice of the pie or everyone should have whatever share they put in toward.
The authoritarian-libertarian spectrum is one of government control versus individual control. One end espouses a totalitarian society where big government dictates everything; the other end espouses an anarchic society where individuals dictate their own liberties.
Brook Hubbard
10:51 am on Tuesday, February 19, 2013
Contrary to the uneducated labels and statements, ideologies can fall anywhere along either spectrum and in any mix.
Left-wing liberal ideologies are similar to Gandhi, promoting less government intrusion while emphasizing a collectivist view on how things are shared. This is in opposition to Left-wing authoritarian ideologies like Stalin, promoting complete government control to force communal sharing of resources.
Brook Hubbard
10:57 am on Tuesday, February 19, 2013
Right-wing authoritarians include Margaret Thatcher and Adolf Hitler. Most modern American politicians fall somewhere in this category, whether Democrat or Republican. Some are a little more center and some are a little more extreme, but they all tend to fall into this quadrant of the two axes.
A right-leaning liberal believes in earning what you work for and individual rights. The ideals of many founding fathers, like Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin fall into these categories. There are few such people in government these days, though, because the ideals are considered unrealistic... especially to the greedy politician. None of them want smaller government, because big government keeps them in office.
Thomas Stone
11:52 am on Tuesday, February 19, 2013
This article makes it seem like he didn't go through any background check for this weapon. He still had to go through a federal background check to purchase the uzi.
Matt
6:55 am on Thursday, February 21, 2013
Very true. Though, not like it would've mattered if he didn't, since Maryland submits very few records to the NICS system! By the way, HB663, which would've forced Maryland to fully comply with NICS, just received an unfavorable review in committee and was withdrawn. Makes you wonder who really cares about the safety of the citizens.
Buck Harmon
12:00 pm on Tuesday, February 19, 2013
I believe that making the purchase in the parking lot at the gun show would be the REAL American way...
Nadia Biznis
7:22 am on Thursday, February 21, 2013
The article lies, every time you purchase a gun legally in Maryland they run a check on you through the FBI. NICS checks come with every legal purchase.
Danna Walker
11:19 pm on Friday, February 22, 2013
A comment has been removed due to use of profanity.
Pru Miller
11:32 pm on Saturday, February 23, 2013
The people are the government and the majority want to see universal background checks. Be constructive people; make suggestions on how to do them right or better. There is more freedom in this country than most others. But rights come with responsibilities so think about how you can work with your fellow citizens. Gratitude, participation, tolerance and hard work are needed. Ask not what your country can do for you ...
Buck Harmon
11:38 pm on Saturday, February 23, 2013
Good point Pru...I don't want my country to do anything for me...including advise or direction with regard to my personal choice of protection...no intrusion what so ever would be the American way of my country.
tom
10:57 am on Sunday, February 24, 2013
Hopefully, Pru, your common sense approach actually does reflect the majority, regardless of which side of the issue you embrace. Buck Harmon expresses a desire for no government involvement. His response indicates he doesn't care about food and drug safety, regulations of banks or credit institutions, courts and law enforcement, transportation safety, education, etc. I'm sure the young men and women putting their lives at risk to defend this country would be gratified by attitudes like his. He would probably be more content in a country like Somalia, where there is no effective government. As teenagers, many of us had the same attitude towards our parents. We wanted them to provide food and shelter and clothing, but didn't want them telling us what we could and could not do. Most of us grow out of that self-centered lifestyle by the time we are adults. Some never acquire that maturity.