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Are Pit Bulls Dangerous by Nature? Court Says Yes

The Maryland Court of Appeals has ruled that owners of pit bulls are liable for damages caused by attacks by the breed.

If your pit bull attacks someone, don't expect much sympathy in court. An opinion recently released by the Maryland Court of Appeals states that you should have already known the breed was dangerous.

Maryland pit bull owners are now facing increased liability in attack cases, following a ruling in Tracey v. Solesky. The case involved a pit bull named Clifford that attacked a minor, causing life-threatening injuries. 

"When an attack involves pit bulls, it is no longer necessary to prove that the particular pit bull or pit bulls are dangerous," wrote Judge Dale R. Cathell in the opinion.

Cathell also stated that landlords have the right to prohibit pit bulls or pit bull cross-breeds from their property.

A PDF of the opinion is attached in the media gallery.

The opinion cited a series of cases involving vicious attacks by pit bulls, as well as expert evaluations and national statistics, according to a WBAL TV News report

Aileen Gabbey, executive director of the Maryland SPCA, claimed the ruling could lead to fewer adoptions of pit bulls, ABC 2 News reported.

Is it fair for the court to designate pit bulls as inherently dangerous? How accountable should dog owners be held in attack cases? Tell us in the comments.

Related Topics: Are pit bulls dangerous, Court ruling pit bulls, Dangerous Dogs, Maryland Court of Appeals, May 2012 Week 1 Review, and pit bulls

Tim

10:14 am on Monday, April 30, 2012

I understand the decision. You know what you are getting when you adopt a pit bull.
You can't plead ignorance in this case.

If there's less adoptions of them, there will be less breeding of them. Dog sales are, like anything else, a demand based business. Reduce the demand, reduce the breeding, problem (eventually) solved.

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Laura M.

11:23 am on Monday, April 30, 2012

do you happen to like huskies, by chance?

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Tim

11:43 am on Monday, April 30, 2012

No. Not a dog owner currently.

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Beth Schmidt

12:19 pm on Monday, April 30, 2012

How can you say that. Any bread of dog can be dangerous. Just because it's a pit doesn't mean its dangerous. People make them dangerous. You say reduce the demand, reduce the breed, problem solved. How about telling humans they can't procreate because they will have stupid or ugly offspring or better yet murderers or rapist, reduce the demand, reduce the breed, problem solved.

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Christine Millan

1:28 pm on Monday, April 30, 2012

What do you mean when you adopt a pit you know what you are getting? So that's like saying when you adopt a child with a certain background you know what you are getting? You can not judge a book by it's cover!! I have pits!! You can not discrimanate against just one breed!! The only reason the pits have the wrap they do is because that is what people choose to view and highlight...EDUCATION IS THE KEY!!!

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Tim

2:05 pm on Monday, April 30, 2012

Dogs, like children, are part nature, part nurture.

It doesn't mean they can't be raised to be sweet, loving animals. As many of you have noted, owners fail their animals much, much more often then animals failing their owners.

However, to imply that pit bulls aren't genetically predisposed for aggression - you're simply fooling yourselves. If you tell yourself anything enough times, you can make it real, right?

Beth: So now you're comparing humans and dogs in the same sentence? oookay now.

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k harris

1:22 pm on Wednesday, May 2, 2012

dog adoption through rescues has nothing to do with supply and demand.
the only result of less rescues is more euthanizations.
http://beta.wosu.org/news/2009/02/09/pit-bulls-face-more-euthanizations-than-other-breeds/

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Urge Tech

1:15 am on Thursday, January 3, 2013

Highly descriptive post, I enjoyed that bit. Will there be a part 2?
http://www.catguide.eu

Robert Wagner

10:45 am on Monday, April 30, 2012

It's the owners of any vicious dog, no matter what breed, that are at fault. I've known a few pit owners and dogs over the years. NONE of the dogs were ever vicious because the owners were responsible people! This is another example of legislation from the courts and big government! The good pit bulls waiting to be adopted will suffer the most.

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Jane Clarke

11:25 am on Monday, April 30, 2012

The only way it is the fault of the "owners," is that the "owners" chose to own a pit bull-type dog. Any humane society in the US -- if you speak to someone who is truthful -- will tell you there are MANY more badly abused collies, shepherds, retriever-type dogs, spaniels, beagles, etc. taken in than there are abused pit bulls, yet when you approach these dogs, they tuck their tails between their legs, whimper and slink off into the corner. If pit bulls were "just like other dogs," as the pit nutters would have us believe, then why don't abused pit bulls do the same? No breed of dog can be trusted completely, but when a collie, beagle, or whatever, has a bad moment and bites someone, it bites and that's it -- the victim usually receives no more than a slight puncture wound. But when a pit bull has a bad moment, someone (or someone's pet or livestock) usually ends up badly injured or dead. Furthermore, pit bulls are constantly "getting loose" from enclosures that could adequately contain other dogs and once they begin an attack, most of the time, nothing short of a bullet will stop them. Owning a pit bull is equivalent to owning a lion or panther and NO ONE should be allowed to own an animal he/she cannot control or contain.

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Laura M.

11:28 am on Monday, April 30, 2012

Jane, I can honestly say i'd be more likely to trust a pibble than I would a lab, golden, cocker spaniel (they're nasty little brats even when treated nice...) or beagle. I have been attacked by both labs and goldens, and I know a few families that have had to put down their cockers after they snapped and attacked their kids.

But no one wants to talk about those breeds attacking people, because they're supposedly such awesome breeds of dogs. No thanks. I'll take the "dangerous" dog.

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Phil Dirt

11:59 am on Monday, April 30, 2012

Excellent post, Jane. You are absolutely right. The difference is between a dog that bites and a dog that mauls with the intent to kill.

And Laura - calling them 'pibbles' or any other cutesy names doesn't make them any less capable of vicious behavior. Sorry to ruin your argument with facts, but the statistics that matter are the numbers of deaths or serious injuries to people or livestock by breed, not the number of bites. I don't think beagles top the list.

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Laura M.

12:13 pm on Monday, April 30, 2012

Phil, have you considered looking at the number of dogs per attack vs the number of dogs of that breed per home? The statistic is undoubtedly higher because of the popularity of the breed.

PS: Once upon a time, the pit bull was considered an ideal family pet. They didn't tend to attack people back then. Maybe it's because people actually trained their dogs once upon a time ago?

Naw, that couldn't possibly be it. They're all bloodthirsty babykillers, always have been, always will be, right? ;)

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Christie Martin

1:49 pm on Monday, April 30, 2012

You are so right. Well said.

Laura M.

10:57 am on Monday, April 30, 2012

ugh, breed specific legislation. so glad to see our ruling party is full of idiots.

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Pat Miller Darby Stemple

11:09 am on Monday, April 30, 2012

Amen Laura!
Breed specific legislation is ridiculous! Idiots!

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Phil Dirt

12:06 pm on Monday, April 30, 2012

Ignoring the namecalling by you fine, nonjudgmental people, I have to agree. BSL is like banning a single class of drugs because it has dangerous and unpredictable side effects and is more likely to lead to death than all other drugs combined. It's the fault of the people who take it, not the drug. Besides, aspirin makes some folks sick sometimes, too.

Clay Hund

11:07 am on Monday, April 30, 2012

This new rule makes pit bulls even more attractive to the very people that want a bad arse dog. Way to go!! They just marketed pit bulls to the very people we wouldn't want owning them! See, when a dog is called vicious, it increases public fear, and thugs want them even more. When will people actually learn about the real affects of BSL? What appears good on the surface, to someone that doesn't thoroughly understand BSL, actually causes more issues. The rule should apply to all breeds; not just a breed type that can be anything with short hair, a block head, and an athletic build. Dumb 'feel good' laws that have been proven ineffective and actually have a negative affect. No one sat down and explained this to the lawmakers?

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Tim

11:20 am on Monday, April 30, 2012

Please. This assumes pit bulls were new to the scene of 'people who want a bad arse dog'.

Welcome to 10 years ago.

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Clay Hund

11:59 am on Monday, April 30, 2012

Tim,

The more a dog is considered vicious or dangerous, the more bad people desire that dog. Human nature. Has nothing to do with being new to the scene. Pit bulls have been around a lot loner than most other breeds. I would agree with the ruling if it covered all dogs. Why single out one?? Makes no sense at all. So when that lab/golden retriever killed a kid a few weeks ago, no rule applies to that dog. When a Husky or German Shepherd attacks someone, no rule applied to those owners. But, when a so-called pit bull attacks, which isn't even a specific breed, the law applies to that? How does this help anyone. Does more harm then good, and punishes good people and good dogs.

BSL has no benefits at all and keeps no one safer.If you do not want to take it from me, maybe you will listen to some highly educated veterinarians and canine behaviorists:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtqXudr7qAQ

Jennifer

11:39 am on Monday, April 30, 2012

I own a pit bull and I'm fully aware of her potential to other people, animals and my child and proper precautions (that i feel should be taken for any dog) are taken. Yes I am more careful with her then I would be a lab because yes if she bites, death or maiming will most likely occur. Alas there is the difference between a responsible owner and the owner that allows a dog capable of what they are capable to run around freely. Unfortunately for the breed, the irresponsible owners are running rampant while the rest are left with the aftermath. I will own another pit bull, but not with more children, mine was gotten before my child and I wasn't about to abandon her to a shelter.

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Karl Schuub

8:55 pm on Monday, April 30, 2012

Cudos to you for recognizing the truth and being fair, reasonable and responsible. No doubt the vast majority of pits are fine and would make wonderful pets...but the profound jaw and body strength mean the difference between the nip of the poodle or the maiming by a pit. When a pit bites it's not the same thing and the potential for terrible damage is certainly there.

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Able Baker

11:17 am on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

Nope, sorry. There's no evidence that pit bulls have stronger jaws than any other dog.

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Chris T

11:33 am on Saturday, August 18, 2012

In response to Able Baker, sure, there's no evidence that a pit bull's jaw is any stronger than your average Chihuahua. No evidence at all. Here's some anecdotal evidence: A friend of mine had a large pit bull, a very friendly dog by all accounts. But he was able to bite the knot off of one of those large rawhide bones in about 10 seconds. I have a border collie that has to work on one for about 2 hours before she is able to bite the end off. I know which one I would rather have attack me!

Beth Schmidt

11:47 am on Monday, April 30, 2012

I own a pit , which we rescued from a shelter, and she is the most lovable and devoted dog that you could have. I trust this pit with my 6 and 9 year old completely. Pit bulls are not born dangerous. They learn to be vicious when HUMANS beat them, fight them, starve them, and most of all neglect them. If you did the same treatment to any other bread they would act in the same manner, become vicious and weary of humans. Pits get a bad rap because of all the publicity. You only hear about those attacks and not the others that occur everyday. If I were to ever get another dog it would be a pit before I would own any other bread, especially a German Sheppard any day.

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Deanne Snodgrass

10:22 am on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

Beth, we have perfectly regular neighbors that own a pit. It decided to run out the front door and bite a child one day out of nowhere. Any dog with a big jaw can do big damage. I do have friends working in emergency rooms that say labs, sheppards, goldens are all regular offenders. I think any dogs behavoir is unpredictable (we all have bad days) but the damage caused by a pit bull is totally predictable. To be attacked by a pekingese is no doubt painful but i don't think they can bite your arm off. Anyway, it isn't always the way a dog is raised, sometimes a dog gets instinctual even when it was raised by non-violent people.

Kate_archived

11:59 am on Monday, April 30, 2012

The family I live with adopted a pit bull, which I was scared to death of for the first week... (Pug obsessed lover here) and I really dislike large dogs. But after I awhile, I found out she was the most useless, derpy dog ever. All she does is run around the yard and play 24/7. Play play play play play play play. Rub my belly. Play playplayplayplay. I've grown to really like pit bulls because they're so pretty and nice.

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Amanda

12:02 pm on Monday, April 30, 2012

I own a pit, and I'll definitely own more. I have two other dogs (which i love to death), but by far the pit is the best behaved and the best "protector" I could ask for. People can be ignorant towards the breed, my Beast will just keep proving them wrong.

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Pat Miller Darby Stemple

12:38 pm on Monday, April 30, 2012

BSL DOES NOT WORK! All you German shepherd, lab, chow, etc owners.....if your dog bites someone...no problem. ANY breed can do harm to someone. Wake up!
UGH! Stupidity is alive and well in Maryland!

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Stacey

12:45 pm on Monday, April 30, 2012

NOT fair at all, sorry....PEOPLE are to blame....I've owned pit bulls, and have friends who have them, and they are one of the most loving breeds I've ever met. The problem is when they are not raised right and are owned by people who probably have no business being dog owners in the first place.
"According to testing by The National Canine Temperament Testing Association, the Golden Retriever, Poodle, Border Collie, English Setter, and numerous other breeds are considered more likely to become aggressive than the breeds commonly referred to as Pit Bulls. While the average score of the 231 breeds tested was a mere 82.4 percent, Pit Bulls scored a 86.5 percent (the higher the score the better)."
Ignorant move, Maryland.

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Gerri Strovel

9:48 am on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

I had a brother that had pit bulls 20 years ago. They had a wonderful life on a 35 acre farm. They were never used to fight. He was the most loving man I have ever met. They were the family pets. Very loving until one day they killed the doberman, 3 full grown hogs and was finally shot trying to take down the family horse. I am not on here trying to change anyones mind about them. Thats something hopefully they don't have to learn the hard way.

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Chris T

11:38 am on Saturday, August 18, 2012

Maybe so, but if my Border Collie decides to bite my 100lb wife one day when I'm not home, I'm pretty sure it won't be able to kill her. I am pretty sure that she would not be able to defend herself against a pit however.

Roland

12:46 pm on Monday, April 30, 2012

Punish the deed, not the breed. The owners of any animal or child should be held responsible for their actions. Animals learn from their masters. I've had animals for 50 years, I know....

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Roland

12:53 pm on Monday, April 30, 2012

And raised six children....

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Able Baker

1:01 pm on Monday, April 30, 2012

The main predictors of dog attacks are:

1. Unfixed males (especially when there are females in heat).
2. Groups of unsecured dogs.
3. Dogs that are confined or tethered.

Add to that the fact that most people can't reliably identify a pit bull.
http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html

Hell, even the Baltimore Sun regularly misidentifies dogs as pit bulls and rarely prints a retraction when it's shown to be a mistake.

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Katie

1:42 pm on Monday, April 30, 2012

I know more people attacked by chihuahuas, cockers, shih zus, and other little dogs than pits, labs, and all the other big dogs. Owners are definitely to blame and the owners of the little dogs never receive any punishment...

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Chris T

11:40 am on Saturday, August 18, 2012

How many people have died from cocker spaniel bites?

GeoffyJ

1:50 pm on Monday, April 30, 2012

That's such bullshit. Why don't they let someone who knows what they are talking about make a ruling. Work with dogs 40 hours a week and alot of the time with pit bulls who happen to be some of the sweetest dogs around. Been but by a boxer, German shepherd, and Boston terrier, all of which you see everyday with no problem.

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Lisa johnson

1:51 pm on Monday, April 30, 2012

Stupid ignorant people...jane clark and phil dirt, you have been given the honor of having your names added to that list.

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Phil Dirt

2:08 am on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

Oh gosh, I'm going to lose sleep over that! What will I do now?
(Uh, and speaking of stupid ignorant people - Jane spells her last name with an 'e' at the end, and you need work on capitalization)

c/o1998

1:53 pm on Monday, April 30, 2012

STOP ABUSING ANIMALS AND THEY WILL STOP BITING AND MAULING. IF YOU ABUSE YOU ANIMAL AND THEN THEY GO TO SPCA OR ASPCA THEY COULD ONE DAY GO OFF BUT AGAIN PEOPLE DO NOT ABUSE YOUR ANIMALS RESEARCH RESEARCH RESEARCH BEFORE BUYING AND DO MORE RESEARCH ONCE YOU GET YOUR ANIMAL. PEOPLE ALWAYS MISTAKE OUR DOGS FOR WOLVES BUT CLEARLY PEOPLE DO NOT DRIVE AROUND WITH WOLVES IN THEIR CAR BUT CLEARLY STUPID PEOPLE CAN WALK AROUND ALL DAY MAYBE THEY SHOULD JUST NOT BE ABLE TO ADOPT OR BUY ANIMALS

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Sandi Stroup Kaufman

1:55 pm on Monday, April 30, 2012

http://rayyathevet.com/2011/09/05/the-anti-pitbull-breedist-legislation/

This journal is written by a vet and provides interesting perspective on this issue.

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Brandi Ewing

1:58 pm on Monday, April 30, 2012

So you say Pit Bulls usually bite with intent to kill...no other dog has done that, right? My mother & boyfriend own a Chow. It has been spoiled rotten all 13 years of her life, it has been around people all of her life...however she tries to bite every person (besides my mother & her boyfriend) that she comes in contact with. My sister can't even trust her kids over there because the dog can not be trusted. She HAS bitten one of my sisters kids & if no one was there to stop her, do you think she would have stop herself...DOUBT IT! So what does that say to me? That it is not just Pit Bulls that have this problem. I have seen a Doberman attack someone & they don't just leave little puncture wounds...same goes for Cocker Spaniels, or any other dog! I've been bit by a German Shepard & I can tell you this, she had my entire leg in her mouth & locked down on it, do you think she was just trying to give me a small punture wound? So I don't want to hear about the BS & how Pit Bulls have the intent to kill or that they can snap & they should all be put down. Do you think a woman that has been bruised & battered or raped & beaten should be put down also...or do you think she should find someone that can love her for a lifetime? Get real people...look at your history on Pit Bulls before you claim to know anything about them. And if you don't...then pipe down until you do.

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Christie Martin

2:00 pm on Monday, April 30, 2012

Quoted from the American Human Association website...http://www.americanhumane.org/animals/stop-animal-abuse/fact-sheets/dog-bites.html

Breed-specific legislation (BSL)

-In response to these statistics, many communities have enacted breed-specific legislation (BSL) that prohibits ownership of certain breeds, such as pit bulls, Rottweilers and others.
-Any breed of dog can bite, and research suggests BSL does little to protect the community from dog-bite incidents.
-In fact, BSL can often have unintended consequences -- such as black-market interest and indiscriminant breeding practices -- resulting in subsequent breed overpopulation that leads to increases in the number of homeless, stray and euthanized dogs.
-Enforcement of BSL has been shown to be very costly and extremely difficult to enforce. One county in Maryland spent more than $560,000 maintaining pit bulls (not including payroll, cross-agency costs and utilities), while fees generated only $35,000.5
-Responsible breeding and ownership, public education and enforcement of existing laws are the most effective ways of reducing dog bites.
-American Humane supports local legislation to protect communities from dangerous animals, but does not advocate laws that target specific breeds of dogs.

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Christie Martin

2:04 pm on Monday, April 30, 2012

More from them...

http://www.americanhumane.org/animals/stop-animal-abuse/fact-sheets/breed-specific-legislation.html (more info on this page and references cited)

"While supporters of BSL argue that the only way to be safe from dog bites is to eradicate “dangerous breeds” from the community, there is little evidence that supports BSL as an effective means of reducing dog bites and dog attacks. On the contrary, studies have shown that it is not the breeds themselves that are dangerous, but unfavorable situations that are creating dangerous dogs. Often, the very research that some cite as “support” for BSL actually argues for alternative, more effective means."

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Lisa johnson

2:12 pm on Monday, April 30, 2012

And Pitbulls were not originally bred for fighting dogs. They were bred to be nannies in England to watch over small children. My pit follows my children everywhere with nothing but love in her eyes n heart n sleeps snuggled up with our 4 year old daughter everynight.

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HDGresident

2:59 pm on Monday, April 30, 2012

The only safe pet is a goldfish, or maybe a pet rock!

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Laura M.

3:00 pm on Monday, April 30, 2012

Rocks are too dangerous - they can be used as weapons! ;)

HDGresident

3:05 pm on Monday, April 30, 2012

Laura M -- best to stick with Goldfish then! ;)

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Laura M.

3:06 pm on Monday, April 30, 2012

but those are dangerous, too! try to kiss them and you kill them...try to play with them and you risk drowning. oh, the horror!

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Joe

9:17 pm on Monday, April 30, 2012

Laura M you are clearly a passionate pit bull owner. I think you are a little off when she categorizes beagles with pit bulls, however that goldfish comment was hilarious!!! I don't agree with your opinions on pit bulls, but at least you made me laugh. Funny stuff!!!

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Laura M.

9:19 pm on Monday, April 30, 2012

Joe - no, not a bully breed owner...but I have a doberman, which has also been maligned due to poor owners. breed specific legislation is crap. I'm glad I could give you a laugh, though. :D

D Miles

4:42 pm on Monday, April 30, 2012

My family and I have owned many dogs over my lifetime. Everything from Beagles to Labs to Chihuahuas and YES even a Pitbull. Our current dog, Molly-a most lovable and friendly Pitbull is by far one of the best natured dogs I have ever seen. She is more like a giant lap dog. Her vet even went so far as to call her a "pitiful-bull" because she isn't aggressive in the least. On the other hand, my wonderful Lab that passed away a few years ago turned extremely vicious over the last few years of her life. If you didn't live in the house, she wouldn't tolerate you being in the house. For everyone's safety, she would go to the bedroom or the kennel when company came. We don't know why she changed, there was no significant trauma that precipitated it. Up until then, she was a very sweet dog and even a little shy.
It isn't the dog breed that is bad--it is how the dog is raised. If you raise a dog to react aggressively, then you are going to have an aggressive dog. Duh! It can happen in any breed.

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Water N Ice

4:54 pm on Monday, April 30, 2012

The problem isnt it the pitbulls agression. All dogs can bite and other breeds have killed humans in the past. Its the pitbulls raw power that becomes an issue in the attack. The jaw stength and the natural need to twist and pull is wear this dog gets seperated from most other breeds. I have no problems with pitbulls at all, I just have a problem with stupid dog owners.

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Bernard Lee

5:43 pm on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

What difference would it make how powerful it is if it did'nt attack. The problem is the tendency to attack. It is a response the dog seems to have little control over in regard to when or who it attacks. No doubt a result of selective breeding for aggression. I have a problem with stupid dog owners also.

Able Baker

4:59 pm on Monday, April 30, 2012

I can guarantee with 99.9% certainty that any time there's a report of a dog attack, you will see the sentence "The owner was cited for failing to license and vaccinate their dog." Almost guaranteed they're unfixed males too.

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Karl Schuub

7:03 pm on Monday, April 30, 2012

There's a pdf list linked to this article from the CDC. It pertains to human fatalities from dog attack. There are more pit bulls today by percent than there were then and by far; hands down responsible for more deaths than any other breed by more than double the amount - sorry no labs or the nasty Cocker Spaniels mentioned above managed to kill anyone..no surprise Rottweilers were 2nd. If you think your dog is so safe you shouldn't be concerned about the extra liability. Live with it; you want to house a pit bull expect big financial losses if it bites somebody.

http://www.cdc.gov/HomeandRecreationalSafety/Dog-Bites/dogbite-factsheet.html

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mydogissmarterthanyourchild

7:58 pm on Monday, April 30, 2012

"Live with it; you want to house a pit bull expect big financial losses if it bites somebody." The same thing can be said about having a child. If and when your child drinks and drives, expect big financial loss when they kill someone behind the wheel. Oh wait, that's not the same thing....or is it?

All pet owners need to raise their dogs with love, teach them what's right and wrong, and keep control over them. If a dog attacks, the owner is solely responsible, period. It's no different than the rules of parenting. I love Perry Hall, but I hate the ignorance of many of the residents. Educate yourself with facts before rambling on about a topic you know nothing about except for what the media spits out.

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Karl Schuub

8:27 pm on Monday, April 30, 2012

Nothing personal, but the facts...statistics are right there for you to read. Pit bulls kill people more than twice the rate of the next breed which is Rottwielers. Certainly agree that everyone who owns a pet is responsible, but if you own a tiger and it attacks somebody you have some additional legal liability because you chose to take a known risk...apparently and proven by facts as stated Pit Bulls not so different. If someone needs to be educated it would appear it's you.

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Able Baker

9:27 am on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

The key phrase is "pit-bull type", which has no real meaning. Basically any square-headed stocky dog, of which there's 50 different registered breeds.

franking

7:54 pm on Monday, April 30, 2012

There is a reason animal experts tell potential dog owners to research the breed they are considering. There are behaviors that are more characteristic of certain breeds. Sure, there are exceptions to every rule, but there is no way I'd let a Pit in my home, around my family.

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CarneyGirl

8:13 pm on Monday, April 30, 2012

Pit Bulls will kill horses and livestock! What other dog breed will do that? Dogs verities are like shark varieties. Yes all sharks can bite you, but would you rather be bitten by a lemon shark or a Great White? Pit Bulls are bad, oh and Rottweilers! I was bitten by a Rottweiler because the girl holding the leash weighed less then the dog and couldn't hold the beast. Get a Lab and be done with all this BS.

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Laura M.

8:38 pm on Monday, April 30, 2012

any dog will kill chickens and waterfowl if given the chance. they're considered livestock.

labs are neurotic, particularly the overbred monstrosities most people have nowadays.

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Karl Schuub

8:42 pm on Monday, April 30, 2012

Don't think the issue the court addressed has one iota to do with the danger a chicken might be in when confronted with a lab. It's kind of more about the fatal mauling of a child...labs and/or lab mixes aren't even on the radar when it comes to actual statistics of attacks. You're simply wrong. Labs won't bring down a horse as happened a couple years ago when that small pack of pits killed a horse in North Harford.

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Kris

12:51 am on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

Actually Karl the dogs that killed the horse were African Boerboels. They look like Pits to the untrained eye, so unfortunately itnwasnreported that Pits did it. Sad thing is most people don't know don't know a Dogo, Cane Corso, Preso, and many other "macho" breeds from a Pit bull. So if it looks like a pit bull it is labeled a Pit Bull. Boxer and Dane mixes also look like pits too. You would be surprised at how many attacks were labeled Pit attacks when in actuality the are one of the many rare breeds that are out there.

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Kris

1:19 am on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

And to answer your question about what other breeds can kill livestock...
Rhodesian Ridgebacks- bred in Africa to take down lions
Neapolitan Mastiffs- bred in Italy to fight lions for sport
Catahoula hounds- bred to tree and take down leopards
Dogo Argentinos- (commonly mistaken for Pit Bulls) bred to hunt pumas and wild boar
African Boerboels- (also mistaken for Pit Bulls) bred to protect homesteads in S. Africa from large game.
Bulldogs- bred to draw bulls off of humans
I can keep going if you would like....I can play this game for hours. Oh, and let's not forget Boxers. A breed that was bred specifically to fight.

Bernard Lee

9:05 pm on Monday, April 30, 2012

This is not rocket science. Unfortunately the pit bull has been selectively bred toward attack behavior by breeders for the purpose of fighting. Aggression is not unlike any other trait in dogs. If you continue to breed the spotted variety of a breed with the spotted variety eventually the breed becomes spotted! The attack response is triggered by other dogs and toddler aged children who approximate the height of a dog. Parents: check the stats on dog attacks on children and be informed.
This ruling is the best thing for the pit bull. A decline in ownerships and breeding will allow for better enforcement of dog fighting laws. Hopefully in time the natural balance of tendancies will re-emerge in this dog.

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Joe

9:07 pm on Monday, April 30, 2012

It is absolutly fair for the court to designate pit bulls as inherently dangerous because they are. There is no denying that this breed has been historically bred to be aggressive. That fact coupled with the unique physiology of their jaws and the "steel trap"bite that they possess makes them dangerous. I don't know how people can't see this? Of course being well trained and having a caring owner certainly makes a huge difference, but even with the best owner this breed is more dangerous than many others because of the way it attacks and the physical make up of their jaws. All dogs are potentially dangerous, and I think owers of all breeds should have a greater liability in the case of dog attacks! That being said the pit bulls physiology and breed history make them the most dangerous.

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Kris

12:57 am on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

The jaws and bite of the Pit Bull are not just unique to the breed. It is a terrier trait in general. I have an American Hairless Terrier and they too have an incredibly strong bite and jaw because they were bred to go to ground. Airedales, Kerry Blues and Irish Terriers could be just as "dangerous" in the wrong hands. They just don't inspire the fear and machoness that a bully breed does.

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Able Baker

9:29 am on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

I guess you're not familiar with the term "tautology".

Pit bulls don't have a stronger bite than any other dog, and you don't have any facts or studies to back that up.

PMM49

9:19 pm on Monday, April 30, 2012

There were 31 fatalities resulting from attacks by dogs in 2011. 22 of the deaths resulted from attacks by pit bull or pit bull type dogs (71 per cent). Pit bulls only account for 5 per cent of the dog population.

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Joe

9:33 pm on Monday, April 30, 2012

Not sure where your data comes from, but if it is accurate that is pretty tough to argue with!

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Karl Schuub

10:27 pm on Monday, April 30, 2012

Look up the data as compiled by the Centers for Disease Control...they also identify pit bulls and pit bulls crosses as being twice as likely to cause a fatality than any other breed. Stats don't lie...anecdotes of gentle pit bulls are just that; anecdotes. Fact is if folks are so sure their pit bull is completely gentle then they should have no problem with the enhanced assumption of risk the courts suggest.

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Joe

11:08 pm on Monday, April 30, 2012

Well said Karl! The stats don't lie!

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Kris

1:01 am on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

Again I will point out the pit bull "like" dog. Most people have no clue about the many rare breeds that are out there. To them it looks like a Pit Bull so it is automatically a Pit Bull. In many cases it has been found that the dog in question was the other, but no retraction is ever issued.

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Able Baker

9:30 am on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

American Pit Bull Terriers are relatively small dogs (~65 lbs at most). Pit bull type dog is a meaningless term, because it can include anything from a Jack Russel (a type of terrier) to a Mastiff (a Molosser type).

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Kris

10:03 am on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

Stats don't lie? Obviously if you have ever taken a Statistics course you would know that that is false. Any one who does statistics will tell you that results can easily be manipulated in order to get the results one wants. Play with numbers a little and add in or remove outliers and bingo you have the results that you are looking for.

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Able Baker

11:25 am on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

Show me a well-controlled study that reports that. You can't, because they don't exist.

Bill Robertson

9:37 pm on Monday, April 30, 2012

Whoever agrees on this, you are complete idiots and need to do research. This is pathetic. People are so ignorant.

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Carole Clark

9:39 pm on Monday, April 30, 2012

Pit bulls are no worse than thrie owners. Any dog with teeth is capable of biting. We have a pit. She was raised with my grandson and is a wonderful, loving pet. The most she does to him is lick him to death. I would have another pit in a heartbeat. I have had other breeds that I would not trust with a child. Pits were raised to be nanny dogs and look after and protect children. It's the money grubber dog fighters that gave pits a bad name.

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Eva L

10:27 pm on Monday, April 30, 2012

Most of you people probably have never had the pleasure of being near a pit...most of you are going on things youve seen or heard on the news. Well guess what, the media can twist anything to turn it into an "appealing" story, so idiots like you can sit there and take it all in and dwell on it because you have nothing better to do with yout sorry lives. I know many pitbull owners and theyre pits are the sweetest dogs in the world...in fact their pits are 50 times sweeter than my german shepard. Its really terrible that this breed gets such a bad name because of narrow minded individuals like yourselves.

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Joe

10:45 pm on Monday, April 30, 2012

Eva, you are ignorant and a complete Dingo! You call people idiots for expressing their opinions just like you are expressing yours. Just because we disagree doesn't mean either one of us is an idiot. We just have different experiences that generate different opinion. I have had a chance to be near a pit bull. It was when it was attacking me! So you have to forgive me when my opinion on the topic is not full of love and admiration for a breed that has historically been bred for fighting and aggression.

Allan

11:12 pm on Monday, April 30, 2012

Just look at the numbers in shelters - 95% are pit bull or pit bull mixes. It's ashamed that the irresponsible thugs that parade their pitbulls and let them roam our roads are the people that need to be charged with these offenses. How many more children need to be maimed and scarred by these animals.

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Bon

11:26 pm on Monday, April 30, 2012

I have been raised around dogs all my life,I have also been bitten twice by a family members dogs(a cocker spaniel and a poodle). Growing up we always had shepherds, with my family now we have labs. I have nothing against pitts,they are not my dog of choice.I totally agree owners make dogs mean and any breed can have the potential to be mean.most of the people that are against the ruling feel this way because they have pits and their dogs are great with their children and friends,but like with ANY dog, they may not be that loving and friendly with people they don't know.Everybody can argue this for the next 100 years, but in reality ALL owners should be held responsible for their pets actions.Everybody has their own opinion.I have always had big dogs and would not own a little dog.I trust a big dog more then I do a little dog.(chihuahuas,poodles,poms shitz zhu etc....). Once before Rotts and Dobies were under fire also, I have friends who have them and they are great to me because they knew me...but I have seen them act like they wanted to eat someone who they didn't know.
Maybe there is a way to regulate who owns pitts so as not to allow the dogs to be used for status, fighting , or attack dogs....sounds crazy, but anything is possible.

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David Taylor

1:04 am on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

"My kids are around pit bulls every day. In the '70s they blamed Dobermans, in the '80s they blamed German Shepherds, in the '90s they blamed Rottweilers. Now they blame the Pit Bull."
- Cesar Millan (The Dog Whisperer)

Also, Basset Hounds have a worse temperament ..
http://atts.org/breed-statistics/statistics-page1/

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Phil Dirt

2:13 am on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

How many times does it have to be restated?

The problem isn't that they are more likely to bite. The problem is that they are much more likely to kill or badly injure. Do you understand the difference?

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Tim

10:08 am on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

This, exactly what Phil said.

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David Taylor

10:54 am on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

It's bad law any way you look at it... it won't make you safer and it only punishes the good owners (as the bad owners are punished under current law). "Pit bulls and pit bull mixes" have a solid reliable disposition.

I hear you, that you want to make a case that this one breed and any mixes of them are "more likely to kill" - but you didn't. I hear that because you think that they should be outlawed or something, but that's faulty logic - there are laws that already handle cases of dangerous dogs, and by saying that the law should presume that any dogs of a particular breed (or any dogs with a mix on that breed) are dangerous leads to sanctions being applied to the vast majority of "good" owners. It's not right to go after the 99.99% of good dogs just because you are afraid of what you think is a breed-specific issue. It's not.

When Spuds McKensie is outlawed, only outlaws will own Spuds McKensie.

Kris

2:27 am on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

Honestly it amazes me that once again another breed has been targeted. I grew up with Dobermans during the time when they were labeled the most dangerous dog. Every breed in uneducated hands can be dangerous! Any dog can be trained to be aggressive, just look at Schutzland training. Breeds generally used for Schutzland... Dobermans, Giant Schnauzers, Rotties, Belgian Sheep dogs and Laekenois, and these breeds are generally used in police work. Why? Because the above breeds can be very aggressive when trained to do so and generally respond to their trainers only. If people actually took the time to research the vast amount of breeds and what they are capable of due to what they were originally bred for, many wouldn't own dogs. I personally own two rare breeds. The Xoloitzcuintli and the American Hairless Terrier. Neither which is suited for the average home. Xolo's are used to guard government buildings in Mexico and sadly also used by the Mexican drug Cartel. They are a breed that in the wrong hands could be dangerous. The only danger one would face with mine is if you threatened my son or myself. My American hairless terrier is a small dog that is feisty and built like a mini pit. Again he is only a threat if you threaten me.

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Kris

2:29 am on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

I would also like to point out that while yes the CDC's statistics are troubling they are also quite skewed. There are many cases that a Pit is credited with an attack when in fact it was one of the many breeds that look like a Pit. Fact is that Pits are terriers and terriers in general are not for the average pet owner. People just don't want to do their homework and want what is popular. Just ask the many people who rushed out to get the Kerry Blue terrier after it won Westminister. Many of which dumped their Kerry Blues real quick for the same reason people are attacking Pit Bulls for. There is a reason you don't see Airedales, Kerry Blues and Irish terriers in the average pet home, because the average pet owner has no clue how to deal with the terrier personality. Go to a dog show and see the large terriers show one time and you would be amazed. Take the time to talk to people's who have spent their lives training and living with dogs and ask them what breeds they fear. I bet you you would be surprised! Just as surprised as if you heard about the many mailings and killing of people and other dogs by breeds such as the Malamutes. Unfortunately they don't create the media sensation that Pits do.

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Kris

2:29 am on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

Heck go to a rare breed show and see some of the breeds that I FEAR will eventually catch on with the trash that have helped perpetuate the Pit Bull rep. Breeds such as the Tosha and Filas... Because if they ever catch on with the scum bags who seem to favor the Pits, you may just start singing a whole new tune.

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G D

6:32 am on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

Unbelieveable, It just so happens, the pit breed is the flavor of the month. Remember the doberman, the german shepherd,rotwieller,chow. It's not the breed, it's the thug element which train these dogs to fight so they can earn a little dough to buy new rims for their cars. After viewing some of the ignorant posts, it's a sad statement on the intelligence of some of these people. Never under estimate the stupidity and ignorance of the general public. Sheeeez!

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Ryan

6:38 am on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

People who are against this law seem to not understand the law. The law will not affect responsible owner’s one iota. The law only makes it easier for people who have been attacked by a pit bull easier to get a judgment against the defendant to help pay the medical bills after their child’s face was ripped off.

How in the world is anyone against this? Kris and others keep saying how great their pits are… So why in the world do you care about this law????? It does not change your life, right???? Your dogs are safe??? How does it affect you??? Answers please????

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Kris

8:26 am on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

I never said my pit was wonderful, because I can't claim that a breed I don't own is wonderful. You may want to reread what I said. I am just an educated dog person who grew up in a Vet hospital, who showed and trained dogs. I have spent my life around terriers and know first hand that the pit bulls are not an anomaly. People keep saying things that are not true via what they get through mass media and not any first hand experience or even from someone who has knowledge of dog breeds and their behavior. How they portray pits today is no different then how Dobies, Rotties and Shepards were once portrayed. Did these breeds miraculously morph into something new? Every owner should be responsible for their pet if it bites regardless of their breed. My issue is that it is a slippery slope towards breed banning, which penalizes good people and good dogs. Even if the breed was banned and eradicated things will never change because a new breed will take the pits place with the dog fighting trash. There are so many breeds out there that most of you have no clue about that are much more dangerous then Pits that this practice will be going on long after we will be all dead.

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mydogissmarterthanyourchild

9:25 am on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

My problem with the ruling is that people will now FEAR my dog even more when we are on a walk, at a dog park, etc. These ignorant people feel they have a right to make asinine comments to me about my dog b/c the law states "they are dangerous." Yes, we live in America where Freedom of Speech is allowed. But to make a comment about my dog to my face, who is behaving very well, isn't fair. If you want to fear my dog, fine. However, please keep your rude comments to yourself.

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Able Baker

9:33 am on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

Sorry, you're the one that doesn't understand the law. Existing common law basically gives a dog "one free bite". This law singles out pit bulls and applies a much stricter standard. It's basically like saying that if you own a Corvette, your first speeding ticket will get your licensed revoked because your car is made for reckless driving.

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Ryan

10:49 am on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

I guess I misinterpreted the law. I thought the main point of the law was to make it easier for plantiff’s to sue defendents if they get bit by a pit bull. I thought the law said that the owner knows the dog could be dangerous, so if they do not take all steps to make sure it does not bite there should be no further burden of proof needed to bring the case to court. Where as if you have another breed of dog it is not as obvious that your dog is a threat so there would need to be more arguments showing your knowledge of having a dangerous dog before a case is brought to court. I forget the name of the latin phrase, but I think it means “at first glance”.

And Able, if you knew the slightest thing about cars you would know that have a corvette, Porsche or any other fast luxury car would actually make you and the others on the road safer rather then more dangerous. If anything, if you have a car that handles well, and can stop on a dime you should be able drive faster then the guy with duct tape holding the bumper on his ‘91 Taurus.

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Able Baker

11:27 am on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

Ryan, you don't understand what an analogy is, do you?

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Ryan

11:34 am on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

I do, do you understand the difference between a good analogy and a poor analogy?

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Able Baker

1:50 pm on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

Wow, you've packed in a surprising number of logical fallacies into a short paragraph. I count : false dichotomy, strawman and misleading vividness. Basically you're unable to articulate why it should be necessary to apply a higher standard to the owners of pit bulls (dog owners are already liable for damage their dogs cause), so you play on people's fears of their children being attacked. Further, you're unable to rebut the "fast car" analogy (the central idea being that the potential for bad acts shouldn't result in a different standard under the law for behavior), so you've offered up a bizarre rationalization that a broken down Taurus is more dangerous than a Porsche. What does the Taurus represent? Who knows?

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Ryan

5:32 pm on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

I am just agreeing with the law, I think the standard to allow a case to proceed after a pit bull attack without having to prove the owner knew the pit was dangerous is a good law. This is because after the past five years of only hearing how mean pits are the owner should know that the dog could be dangerous. This is different than a lab owner, where all you hear is how great they are with kids, and never hurt anyone. That is why the burden of proof is different for pits. I guess that is very hard to understand.
I was saying the car analogy is bad because it is safer for a high end car to be on the road rather then a piece of junk car. I would agree with your whole "slippery slope" analogy if you used a junky car that can't stop well, and cannot handle a quick maneuver nearly as well as a luxury car.
If that is too hard to understand I will use my intelligence and stop trying.
Just an FYI, I have actually never met a mean pit, and I always let my dog play with pits when we come across them, I however do expect their owners to be more in control of their dogs then a lab owner. I know, I am in the minority and must be a nut for thinking that.

sbbi

6:55 am on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

By this logic then we should look at the number of violent crimes in the US and find out what race commits them and make it easier to get a judgement against that race.

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G D

6:59 am on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

I think the upsetting thing is how ignorant this decision is, Not only will anyone within the city limits who resides in an apartment have to give up their loyal pet, because any landlord with half of a brain will be forced to make a decision so as to limit their liability. This will mean the dog shelters will be overrun with pits. This is just an attempt to outlaw pitbull (or any mixed breed) ownership in the city outright their are many breeds of dog that if mistreated would be considered dangerous. LAME!

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PMM49

7:03 am on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

In recent years, the dogs responsible for the bulk of the homicides are pit bulls and Rottweilers:

"Studies indicate that pit bull-type dogs were involved in approximately a third of human DBRF (i.e., dog bite related fatalities) reported during the 12-year period from 1981 through1992, and Rottweilers were responsible for about half of human DBRF reported during the 4 years from 1993 through 1996....[T]he data indicate that Rottweilers and pit bull-type dogs accounted for 67% of human DBRF in the United States between 1997 and 1998. It is extremely unlikely that they accounted for anywhere near 60% of dogs in the United States during that same period and, thus, there appears to be a breed-specific problem with fatalities." (Sacks JJ, Sinclair L, Gilchrist J, Golab GC, Lockwood R. Breeds of dogs involved in fatal human attacks in the United States between 1979 and 1998. JAVMA 2000;217:836-840.) 

The Clifton study of attacks from 1982 through 2006 produced similar results. According to Clifton study, pit bulls, Rottweilers, Presa Canarios and their mixes were responsible for 65% of the canine homicides that occurred during a period of 24 years in the USA. (Clifton, Dog attack deaths and maimings, U.S. & Canada, September 1982 to November 13, 2006; click here to read it.)

Not talking about dog bites here, but attacks resulting in death or maiming. it would appear that certain breeds/breed crosses are responsible for a disproportionate number of these attacks.

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sbbi

7:11 am on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

Then I think that this should be an across the board law. We should look at religion, sex and race and cater the laws to how the crimes are committed to make sure that we are all protected from those that are violent by nature.

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Able Baker

9:38 am on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

1. The studies are collected from newspaper accounts, not law-enforcement. Would you trust a study based on Baltimore Sun accounts?

2. It lumps a wide variety of dogs into the "pit bull type". Basically any terrier, mastiff or Molosser-type dogs, which automatically overinflates the numbers. If I said "Rottweiler or any German breed" the numbers would skyrocket because it would include Dobermans, German Shepherds, Boxers and a wide variety of Pinschers.

G D

7:32 am on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

PMM49, You can throw around all the statistics you want, I'm sure I can find other statistics to contradict yours. Bottom line is you can't pass breed specific legislation, it is narrow minded and ignorant.

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PMM49

10:48 pm on Wednesday, May 2, 2012

Please post the studies that show that other breeds kill and maim disproportionately to the presence in the overall dog population. Again, we are not talking about the incidence of dog bites, or the propensity of a certain dog breed to bite (CDC). When talking about killings and maiming, the simple fact is that those incidences are statistically much more likely to involve pit bull type dogs.

Karl Schuub

7:51 am on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

The point is given the statistical evidence of the increased danger of injury in pit bull and pit bull cross attacks (I'd throw Rotties in the mix if I had the power); owners of these breeds need to have additional legal responsibility if something should occur. If you feel your dog is so safe; then why would you care what the court decides? It's clear the blame sometimes rests with the types of people drawn to pit bull type pets; they're less responsible overall or we wouldn't have 90% of the abandoned shelter dogs being pit bulls. Somewhere between the typically crappy owners, inherent behavioral tendency of the dog and it's ability to inflict great bodily injury we have a chronic problem. If the court sees fit to address the problem by forwarding the idea that owners who choose this breed have to assume additional responsibilities so be it. Frankly, I think homeowners policies ought to identify who owns these animals and make them pay additional premiums. We ought to address the issue by enforcing a series of disincentives towards ownership to reduce the numbers of these dogs. It's no coincidence almost every shelter in this country has more pit bulls than any other breed and by a enormous margin.

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Able Baker

9:40 am on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

The statistics are garbage. They're collected from newspaper accounts which suffer frequently from misidentification and it lumps several distinct breeds into one category, which overinflates the numbers. There's a good reason why the American Veterinary Association and the Humane Society is against breed-specific legislation and in favor of strong dangerous dog legislation.

John K

7:54 am on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

The problem is at the other end of the leash!

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Jen

8:44 am on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

I own a pit bull and a higher level of responsibility definitely comes with the territory of owning one. I always keep my dog on a leash - not because I think he would ever attack another dog or human, but if another dog attacked him, it would suddenly turn into another "vicious pit bull attack" story. Pit bulls consistently score higher on the American Temperment Test than collies, cocker spaniels, chuhuahuas and other breeds that aren't discriminated against by the media and BSL. http://atts.org/breed-statistics/

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David Taylor

8:51 am on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

Statistics? Even if they were carefully analysed (and I think they were NOT in this case), that's not the basis for fair laws people... the law is assuming something that may be FALSE for expediency. The judge says, that if the dog has any bull terrier in it, then it's assumed that he's a dangerous dog for legal purposes. There is a presumption of guilt for all owners of these dogs. My friend who has a sweet little puppy that loves cheese puffs is now in a position where his pet is assumed to be aggressive and dangerous by the law... that's not truth and justice, it's literally prejudice, and it's wrong to encode that into the legal system.

As for the wannabe statisticians, you are making false "facts" here. We may as well list the cars most likely to be used in a bank robbery, then increase the liability for apartment buildings that allow those cars and in court cases, assume that the drivers use them the steal. Let's put out a warning to all the Chevy owners (and people who have cars with Chevy parts), and let's avoid these thieves and stop them from stealing from us!!!

It's an uninformed and ultimately ineffective law, and it's not even a law! This is just one judge who's taken it upon himself to institute a sketchy new legal rule that we will all have to live with... cowardice, bad science, and prejudice strike again.

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Karl Schuub

9:18 am on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

Except your car analogy doesn't work here. The cars don't move without someone starting the engine, putting the foot on the gas and steering. The dog sort of moves around on it's own. In fact your analogy assumes there are no animals any more or any less likely to cause injury - as if inherent behaviors are nonexistant. Anyone who knows anything about animals will tell you that couldn't be more inaccurate. Black bears and much less likely to attack than grizzlies. Honey bees are docile, but African bees will swarm and kill. Poodles are lap dogs...wolves not so much. Some dog breeds are more aggressive than others and when combined with an intimidating physique can do much greater harm.

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David Taylor

9:38 am on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

The point is that the LAW is making this presumption, and that by citing (questionable) statistics as the basis for this newly minted judicial "law", this leads to falsehoods being introduced in actual cases... You are free to believe whatever nonsense you like Karl, poodles and wolves and whatnot... but it's wrong for the law to target the owners of some dogs based on statistics (not cited, but alluded to), and then, without even giving much of a definition of what dogs are targeted - it's no more fair to assume that all dogs "that sorta kinda look like they might have some bull terrier in them" are dangerous than it is to assume that Chevy owners are thieves, and it's very wrong for the law to presume that Spuds McKensie is a man-eater, or for landlords or insurance agents to punish his owners.

Basically what we have is one rogue judge who's let his ignorance and fear generate a new law that impacts responsible people unfairly... imagine what you will about the bears and the bees, that sort of prejudice has no place in the courts.

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Karl Schuub

9:45 am on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

You have nothing to fear if you're sure your dog is gentle. All the caterwalling about fairness starts to presume somebody "doth protest too much" and we all know what that implies.

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David Taylor

10:07 am on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

Karl - that's actually more to my point - if we apply the laws equally, then the owners have nothing to fear if their animals are not dangerous, however, if there's a law that says that owners, despite having a gentle dog, are targeted by landlords and in legal cases anyway, then that's unfair to them.

By the way, you are using that Shakespeare quote in the wrong context... if you have something to say, then try to say it so that people can understand what you mean. Your obtuse and poorly executed reference to literature just make you seem even more confused/confusing. I think you meant to attack me personally, but I'm not exactly sure given that you what you said doesn't make any sense, are you suggesting that's I'm actually a dog pretending to be a man online?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Internet,_nobody_knows_you're_a_dog

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Karl Schuub

10:15 am on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

You can usually tell when somebody has run out of credible argument. They skip the subject and resort to personal attack. Wasn't aware this was a english test, but now that you've pointed out we're being scored I'll be sure to proofread for grammar. What is more important in life you think; good grammar or good sense?

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David Taylor

10:32 am on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

Karl - Yes, you are right, your personal jibe at me there is an indication that you conceded at that point in out little chat. I'm not saying your grammar is bad, please try re-reading what I said and a bit more slowly if that helps any. I'm saying it doesn't make any sense and is confusing to the reader, and I simply want to know what you meant by, "All the caterwalling about fairness starts to presume somebody "doth protest too much" and we all know what that implies."

Are you implying I'm a canine, or that I sound like a cat to you? Please do explain this if you can... or feel free to quote more random Shakespeare if you prefer.

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Karl Schuub

11:11 am on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

Apparently some need to be spoonfed into adulthood:

Caterwauling has nothing to do with cats:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/caterwaul
Meaning of the phrase "one doth protest too much" is generally accepted as "to insist so passionately about something not being true that people suspect the opposite of what one is saying". Surely hoping you can figure it out from there.
http://dictionary.babylon.com/the_lady_doth_protest_too_much,_methinks/

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David Taylor

1:28 pm on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

Karl - I'm sorry, but I see the point in your personal attacks. What does you calling me shrill have to do with this law? You still haven't made yourself clear. Don't bother though, as I don't really care to argue about if you think that I'm "caterwalling" as you said, or what the heck you mean by quoting Hamlet at me there... hilarious though, and thanks for the laugh!

Bonnie Mogavero

9:13 am on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

My best friend's son had a pit-bull. He had to move back with his family when his wife gave birth to a lovely baby girl. They all agreed to keep the dog, and train her ad care for her. She was one of the sweetest dogs I've ever met. Eventualy their daughter learned to walk holding herself up on the dog. I even brought my Siberian Husky over for a few play dates and they got along wonderfully

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G D

9:34 am on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

I have an amstaff (american staffordshire terrier) and by what people have said to me about my dog, it's obvious most people don't even know what a true pitbull is. If you classify the ruling as "pitbull like" dogs, who is going to pay for the DNA testing to determine which ones are truly pits.

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Karl Schuub

9:51 am on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

That's an easy one if your dog bites and injures someone and by appearance presents itself as a Pit Bull; the owner who has an increased assumption of risk pays for the DNA test. If it's proven a Pit then additional fines and penalties should be automatic. The point is to reduce the population of Pit Bulls. Life isn't fair - if somebody drives a Camaro vs. a Civic they'll pay a much higher insurance premium. Why? Because statistics prove folks that drive Camaros are a higher risk...even if the one guy out there who drives a Camaro drives like a granny the costs will still be higher.

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David Taylor

10:23 am on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

Karl - at least you admit that it's unfair for the law to be applied this way, thanks for agreeing with me there. I hope that one day you'll be able to get over your irrational fears and prejudices and discover that breed-specific laws are useless to protect you and only hurt the good owners.

By the way, insurance premiums for specific brands are based on the risk of theft, and the liability portion is calculated based on the owner/driver's behavior. You have it all wrong there... but appreciate that you included the point that the operator/owner behavior is a fairer way to determine things.

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Dave in BR

10:39 am on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

@ David - there are a number of factors that determine rates - including the ones you list. But vehicle performance is one of them as well.

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David Taylor

11:11 am on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

Thanks Dave/B - you are absolutely correct... there is a performance component (ie: sports cars are rated higher).

But if I'm right, it's applied to all sports cars that fit the category, and not just one model or brand (ie: Chevy). Also, these premium adjustments should be based on liability tables, not on the whims of one adjuster and it's not done to sanction certain owners regardless of their behavior.

Like many analogies, you can only take it so far to illustrate a point - I think when Karl said, "statistics prove folks that drive Camaros are a higher risk" he was trying to say that bull terriers are like Camaros... and my counter was that in the insurance analogy, the owner's behavior is a greater factor. It's not a matter of discrimination, or that "life is not fair" - car insurance isn't done that way.

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Ryan

11:31 am on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

I think the car analogy holds no weight in the conversation.

I just don’t understand how anyone can say that someone who owns a pit should not be more careful then a lab owner. Is that really the argument everyone is trying to make, if you own a pit you have no responsibility to take extra precautions when you are out in the public. Not trying to be mean, but can someone who owns a pit please tell me why you should not be more careful with your dog. (I know other dogs should probably be on this list as well, but please don’t bring up other dogs in your argument)

Lastly, can everyone at least agree that if one person/child does not get their face ripped off by a pit because the owners are more aware of the consequences they could face because of this law, it would be a good thing?

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David Taylor

1:20 pm on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

Ryan - nobody has argued that "pit bull owners" shouldn't be careful... it's that the law is saying that no matter how careful, and no matter what the training or disposition of the dog, if they have any "pit bull" in them, then that are automatically dangerous and a liability. It punishes the good owners, yet does nothing to increase the responsibilities of bad owner (especially bad owners who will choose other breeds). Breed-specific laws just don't make any sense.

As for the "do it for the children" thing ... there's no reason to believe that increasing liability on good owners and dogs would save anyone from anything... besides, under that same argument, shouldn't we ban *all* dogs, not just this one breed?

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Able Baker

2:05 pm on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

DNA would be completely unenforceable, because there's no reliable genetic markers for breeds of dogs. Sure there's plenty of testing services that are glad to take your money, but they're scams.

The car analogy works fine. If you own a car that can exceed the speed limit, you've got to install a governor that limits your speed. Speeding is illegal, and is a key factor in highway fatalities. Do it for the children. Why should my child's head be splattered all over the road so you can drive fast?

G D

9:46 am on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

ALL ER, UH, KINDA, SORTA, KINDA LIKE, MAYBE, PITBULL OWNERS UNITE!

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kathy kalb

9:54 am on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

any dog can be dangerous.it is no dogs nature unless you choose it to be dangerous.the most loving pits are those that have fought and been rescued.so they like humans know and understand the difference between love and hate

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Tim

10:09 am on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

I'm so glad I could get this epic discussion started :)

I should get paid by this site.

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sbbi

10:13 am on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

Way to pat yourself on the back you self important ass bag

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Tim

12:05 pm on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

Oh, I'm not just self important. Make sure you get your terribly sad insults right, if you're going to spew them.

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sbbi

12:13 pm on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

The only things "terribly sad" that are being spewed here is all of the misconceptions you headline/blurb readers like to regurgitate.

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Karl Schuub

12:27 pm on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

And this bit of feckless rambling from someone who tried to turn a discussion regarding vicious dogs into a racial issue.

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Tim

12:39 pm on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

Exactly Karl. I almost spewed out my drink laughing at the irony.

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sbbi

12:41 pm on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

Schlubby! I missed our banter!! I did not try to turn it into a racial issue. I pointed out that it's the same thing. If you take statistics and apply it to violent crimes we could change around laws to make it easier to punish those who "statistically" have a tendency to commit those types of crimes. Doesn't that seem fair?

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Tim

12:44 pm on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

wait, so you're equating dogs to having equal rights as American citizens now?

I knew we'd get some animal loving kooks on here, but...

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Tim

12:48 pm on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

I'm going to go look up the doggie constitution now. I'm sure it's in the national archives somewhere...

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sbbi

12:56 pm on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

Shouldn't anyone or anything that kills at this rate be treated the same? I mean we are making more stringent laws against an animal that people feel have this natural tendency to kill, why shouldn't we treat people the same way? Why should we not treat a "breed" of people that kill in a disproportionate number the same way we are treating this "dangerous animal." I can guarantee you that people kill people much more than an pit bull.

Kris

10:34 am on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

For the many of you who think this law is so great and statistics about pit bull attack are spot on please look at the following links...
http://aspcabehavior.org/articles/193/The-Truth-About-Pit-Bulls.aspx
http://www.wellfur.com/2011/08/18/5-problems-with-breed-specific-legislation-bsl/
And here are some videos of Schutzland training (the same training police use). I bet if you saw these dogs on the street you would swear they are "pit bulls" Surprise they are not.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQPX8f50E0s&feature=youtube_gdata_player

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mIYFCvJ_cI&feature=youtube_gdata_player
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMN10X8nqv8&feature=youtube_gdata_player

All of these dogs are used in guard work and foreign police work

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Kris

11:41 am on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

I redact my last comment. What I meant to say is that my cats' breath smells like cat food.

RB

1:46 pm on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

Now I'm confused? How many Kris' are there?? And I don't think you can just redact a comment like that. You also cannot triple stamp a double stamp.

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Kris

2:17 pm on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

The two posting various links were from me. I have no clue where the one about the Cat came from

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Kris

2:51 pm on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

I did too post all three postings. No I didnt. Yes I did! Why do these voices taunt me so?!? And to you, "RB", Anti- quincies no tag-backs.

Karl Schuub

2:23 pm on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

Never really understood why anybody would want a scary looking ugly dog. Of all the breeds, mutts and the like out there needing homes something odd about a person that has to have this tough guy status dog. Grew up with dogs, have always had my own, now have two rescued dogs, my sister showed dogs and I can name nearly every breed by site. Not fooled by all these claims of gentle dogs...last time I took my dogs to Rebel Dog Park a lady showed up with two dogs - one pit, one mutt. Her pit had been in the enclosure no more than 30 seconds before it lit into somebody else's animal. It grabbed and shook - and that's the problem in a nutshell. They can do tremendous damage quickly because of the physical ability and fighting style. I won't take my dogs to the park when there's a pit bull lose and if one arrives, I leave. They can't be trusted...don't really care if it's nature or nurture; those dogs are not predictable.

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Able Baker

2:51 pm on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

It's difficult to argue with your one data point.

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Karl Schuub

2:53 pm on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

Once anecdote and virtual mountain of statistical data. Anyone who's the least bit interested in being honest with themselves has to concede there's a problem there.

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Able Baker

4:57 pm on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

What statistical data? One or two poorly controlled studies culled from newspaper accounts? Please enlighten me. Anyone that knows anything about statistics or the scientific method can see these studies have holes big enough to drive a truck through.

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Tony Solesky

5:33 pm on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

I am unaware of any animal advocacy group that has actually introduced a breed neutral bil. I would support that as well. So far all they have done is introduce animal cruelty laws. WHere and when does this group pushing this type law meet? I would like to see the substnce of the idea. not a idea about it.

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Karl Schuub

6:41 pm on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

How many times Abe do I have to repeat...these are not newspaper studies...CDC studies of dog bites both with injury and fatality; those would be documented incidents compiled by the Centers for Disease Control. It's been linked several times and don't BS everyone with some comment akin to without DNA you can't prove it's a pit bull. We all know what pit bulls look like and we all know what pit bulls can do. If the photos of this kid don't cause you any pause then you are part of the problem.

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Able Baker

10:00 am on Wednesday, May 2, 2012

Repeat it all you want. Here's a quote from the CDC study (http://www.cdc.gov/HomeandRecreationalSafety/images/dogbreeds-a.pdf) under the Procedure heading:

"Data for human DBRF identified previously for the period of 1979 through 1996 were combined with human DBRF newly identified for 1997 and 1998. Human DBRF were identified by searching news accounts..."

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Karl Schuub

10:25 am on Wednesday, May 2, 2012

Odd how you cut off the quote Abe right where you think it supports your nonsensical proposals. Do you seriously think in cases of fatalities from dog bite that substantive information wasn't verified and checked even if some of the information collected came from a news source? This isn't as if somebody's chihuahua nipped a kids ankle and ran off - we're talking about verified killings here - the deaths of children typically. Another thing we know most maulings are of children and most of those occur in the home where both the dog and the children lived. I guess you want to try to tell me the people that owned the dogs that attack and kill don't know what sort of dog they own? Nice try, but that doesn't hold water.

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Able Baker

1:24 pm on Thursday, May 3, 2012

The killing is frequently the only thing that's verified. They're collected from news reports, and the news doesn't have much interest in verifying the breed in a story. Neither do the cops.

When a closer investigation is made, most breed identifications don't hold up.

http://nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/dogbites/dog-bite-related-fatalities/

Tony Solesky

3:58 pm on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

The backlash to the Maryland Court of Appeals decision by pit bull advocates are from either people who didn't read the decision or those who did, but cannot understand the following language by the Court on page 22: "Our opinion in the present case does not ban pit bulls, but puts a greater responsibility for vicious dogs where pit bull advocates have long argued it should be - with the owners and others who have the power of control over such dogs. Our opinion imposes greater duties by reducing the standards necessary to hold owners and others liable for the attacks of their pit bulls." (See full ruling: http://bit.ly/IE9zOv). Unfortunately, too many in the "humane" business have failed to turn their attention on the real problem that allows the proliferation of ill-bred pit bulls, many of which end up being maulers: unrestrained pit bull breeders. High courts recognize that human victims of these injuious maulings must have a way to be compensated after a brutal attack. The dismal failure of "humane" and rescue groups -- both of which have had over 25 years to find a solution to the pit bull problem -- is now going to be exacerbated (more unwanted pit bulls winding up in shelters) due to this ruling. You have your own mismanagement of 25+ years to blame. Finally, due to "humane" groups failing to be honest about this breed's inherent dangerousness, high courts have made this declaration themselves.

Tony Solesky
Dominic's Dad

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Able Baker

5:18 pm on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

Let's talk about the behavior of the owner here:

1. After his dog bit the first kid, he pulled him into the house, threatened him and pushed him outside hysterical and bleeding.
2. After his dog bit your son, he pulled the dog off, left your son lying in the alley, went inside and never called an ambulance.

Is there any doubt that this is a bad guy? Non breed specific dangerous dog legislation would've covered this case adequately. Existing MD case law covers it adequately, except that people want to be able to sue landlords.

Tony Solesky

4:10 pm on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

pictures of Dominic's injuries please don't call this mauling a dog bite

www.dangerousbydefault.net

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Karl Schuub

4:28 pm on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

Thanks Tony - nothing like a photo to bring reality home. That poor child. My goodness I can't imagine how frightening it must have been. I'm hoping he's fully recovered although I'm sure he'll carry scars both physically and emotionally for the rest of his life.

Eva l

4:37 pm on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

Joe...im sorry that happened to you, however pitbulls were bread for animal aggression, not human aggression. Like I said you cant blame the dogs for what hhumans have done. Any dog can be aggresive...depends on how it is traind and raised, dingo.

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Tony Solesky

5:35 pm on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

Abe please post a copy of the breed neutral bill/law that you and your group are pushing for. I would like to read it.

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Able Baker

10:06 am on Wednesday, May 2, 2012

The final page of this study by the American Veterinary Medical Association's Task Force on Canine Aggression is also endorsed by the Humane Society of the US.

http://www.avma.org/public_health/dogbite/dogbite.pdf

http://www.humanesociety.org/animals/dogs/facts/statement_dangerous_dogs_breed_specific_legislation.html

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Able Baker

10:18 am on Wednesday, May 2, 2012

Sorry, hit submit too soon. The final page of the study includes Model Dangerous Dog legislation, which is endorsed by both the AVMA and the HSUS.

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Able Baker

1:38 pm on Thursday, May 3, 2012

No comment on the legislation? Crickets?

little sister

8:29 pm on Tuesday, May 1, 2012

Anyone who knows anything about dogs knows this ruling is fair and just.

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Tony Solesky

8:30 am on Wednesday, May 2, 2012

It is one thing to be against this ruling, it is another entirely to be against it and not understand it or what the implications are or are not. First to DNA, how does anyone on here know the dog they are defending is a PIT BULL? You do it by appearance you do not have or know one person or likely have met one person that has papers for their dog and also a DNA test to prove it. It is very easy for a remotely qualified vet to tell you what the dog is. It is how all breeders have done it forever and will continue. It is ironically you know and defend your dog, so please stop it. It is not animal racism or profiling it is breed identification. Until then Obama and Tiger Woods will be black by identity.

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Tony Solesky

8:39 am on Wednesday, May 2, 2012

Inherently is even easier to understand. With people also but in this example a K-9 they are the result of assembling k-9 material in such a way to produce an Identity. In this instance Pit Bull class. Just like european class people. As with a Golden Retriever who is K-9 material, it is assembled with material that is primarily retrieving class material and as such does not have a heredity that is dangerous. Pit Bulls are assembled with fighting material and since fighting is a dangerous activity they are inherently dangerous. All the law does is respond to Pit Bull owners who want to get the bad owners off the breed to stop ruining it’s reputation. To do that they said these dogs are inherently dangerous and therefore if you use an inherently dangerous material in a bad way you can now be completely liable.

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Tony Solesky

8:47 am on Wednesday, May 2, 2012

IF accontability like that causes people to second guess themselves and givwe up their dogs. That is where the dogs should be in the shelter not with these owners. If you rent then your not ready for this type dog just like I can't have a horse because the county won't let me in my Towson row home.

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Able Baker

10:08 am on Wednesday, May 2, 2012

Do you honestly think the owner of the dog that bit your child, a man that threatened another child after his dog bit him, would be deterred by something like this?

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Karl Schuub

10:33 am on Wednesday, May 2, 2012

Maybe not Abe, but after the first incident the dogs would be removed and/or the guy would lose his car or his house because you're starting to see insurance policies with exceptions for dog bites; thereafter you can be sure he would no longer own pit bulls and that is the correct outcome.

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Kris

12:11 pm on Wednesday, May 2, 2012

Jan 2006 Rottie kills 11 month old
Aug 2006 Presa Canario kills 30yr old
Aug 2096 Boxer kills 52 year old
March 2007 Golden Retriever kills 50 year old
June 2007 Chow kills 63 year old
This is only a small sampling of all the breed kills from 1988 to 2007. Yes there were Pit Bulls on this list too. Also all of these fatalities were by pure breeds. The number of fatalities by mix breeds is startling. Some were pit mixs and some weren't. One thing is clear from the list is mix breeds of all types cause more fatalities. Why? Is it perhaps that mixing dogs with unique personalities and traits causes instability because you have two or more different personalities waring with each other. Certainly food for thought when designer breeds that people are paying obscene amounts of money for are nothing but a mixed breed. The fact is no matter what any large dog has the potential to KILL not just the APBT. Hence why I adamantly said that people need to do their homework before getting a dog!

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Able Baker

1:46 pm on Thursday, May 3, 2012

Right, but lets be honest. It's more about being able to sue someone with deeper pockets, i.e the landlord.

You're extrapolating this behavior to a reasonable person. The owner of this dog is very clear a scumbag who threatened a child after his dog bit him, then refused to help another child.

Kris

9:15 am on Wednesday, May 2, 2012

Tony, first let me say that my heart goes out to you and Dominic. As a mother my self, if it had been my child the owner of the dog may not be walking this earth. My issue with this law is how breed specific it is. Any one who decided to have a pet should do their homework and no matter what the breed should be held liable for their dogs. What I see wrong with this law is suppose someone has a "Pit Bull" and someone breaks into their home and the dog attacks. Then the robber sues for the attack. Is the dog and owner going to be punished for that? There have been numerous cases where someone who has broken into a house and been shot by the owner turns around and sues the person who pulled the trigger.

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Kris

9:21 am on Wednesday, May 2, 2012

The dog was doing its job of protecting the home. The law is way to vague and offers no variances for situations like that. As for the statement that no one really has papers on their Pit... That is simply not true. There is a parent kennel club known as the American Pit Bull association and both the United Kennel Club and American Rare Breed association both recognize and sponsor shows for these dogs. The American Kennel Club is looking into allowing the APB as foundation stock which is the first step into AKC recognition. Those who go through this process have worked hard to breed the best and most sound dogs possible. Spaying and neutering any dog that does not fit to what the standards of the breed are.

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Karl Schuub

12:37 pm on Wednesday, May 2, 2012

Wow Kris the level of ignorance is amazing. So this dog nearly kills this man's kid and you have the outright gall to suggest directly to this father that the dog was doing it's job. You ought to be put on permanent ignore.

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Kris

1:09 pm on Wednesday, May 2, 2012

Karl is there something wrong with your reading comprehension skills or do you just feed on stirring up fake drama? No where did I say such a thing about the dog who attacked his son. So why don't you reread what I wrote in its entirety before making such an ignorant comment

Kris

9:32 am on Wednesday, May 2, 2012

Unfortunately many people get this breed and have really had no experience with Terrier dogs in general. Any breed of Terrier is not for the average pet owner. They are stubborn and tenacious. I have been around dogs all my life. I have trained and shown many breeds of terriers. I don't own a pit nor have I ever. I grew up with Dobermans during a time when they were considered the big bad. My parents were threatened with losing their insurance policy because they owned Dobermans. It saddens me that I know truly amazing APB that are therapy dogs that will be punished at this for no fault of their own, because this is the first step to breed banning. As I have said before there are many breeds that in the wrong hands that are capable of a lot. Breeds that I personally would never in a million years considering owning because of their raw power. Breeds that may eventually take the place of "pits" .

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Karl Schuub

10:10 am on Wednesday, May 2, 2012

Kris...that's all well and good but we're not talking about a "stubborn and tenacious" breed we're talking about potentially lethal breed. How many times does it have to be repeated that if you're sure your pit is safe and gentle and you support the ownership of pit bulls in general you ought to fully support holding bad owners more responsible for damage caused by thier animals. We've gone round and round enough - it's either nature or nurture and if you're unwilling to admit to any amount of nature, then surely nurture must mean there are lots and lots of horrendous pit owners out there because they make up the bulk of abandoned animals in shelters and most of the maulings recorded by the CDC. If that's the case additional penalties ought to be welcomed by responsible pit owners...unless of course you fear maybe, just maybe all this defensiveness belies your worst fear - that indeed that pit bull you have playing with your children just might be capable of terrible deeds.

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Able Baker

10:34 am on Wednesday, May 2, 2012

You seem to be missing the point that this decision punishes all owners, and will do nothing to deter irresponsible ones. Do you honestly think someone who can't be bothered to vaccinate or license their dog is going to worry about potential liability?

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Karl Schuub

10:40 am on Wednesday, May 2, 2012

No Abe you miss the point. If your dog doesn't bite; if you're so sure it's gentle and kind you have absolutely nothing to worry about. This is just one effort to reduce the numbers of pit bulls and pit bull owners out there only to those that will chose to properly confine they're animals. Can't imagine anyone if they truly love this breed isn't heart broken by the number of pits that languish in shelters because this breed obviously attracts crappy humans.

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Kris

11:48 am on Wednesday, May 2, 2012

Karl, tell me what experience do you have with dogs. Do you own a dog and if so what type? I am a third generation dog person, trainer and daughter of a vet. My life has been spent around dogs, I am pretty sure I know what I am talking about. Also can you point out where I said I owned a pit. Maybe even where I said people who have dogs that attack shouldn't be held responsible. Did you know that over 20 breeds of dogs are often mistaken for APBT to an untrained eye? Here is a few just as an FYI: Dogo Argentino, American Bull dog, Catahoula Bull dog, Cane Corsos, Tosa Inui, Dougue de Bordeaux, and poorly bred Boxers to name a few. Have you ever seen one of these breeds? Have you ever heard of these breeds? The average person wouldnt know what they were if they happen across them. In a lot of cases where an attack was credited to a "pit bull" type it was one of these breeds. The fact is that any breed has the potential to be deadly. Since you love statistics so much I will follow in the next post with fatalities by breed in certain years.

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Kris

11:59 am on Wednesday, May 2, 2012

Jan 1998 lab kills 2 year old
Jan 2001 Presa Canario kills 33 yr old
Feb 2002 Rottie kills 10 yr old
June 2002 German Shepard kills 4yr old
Sept 2003 Dobies kills 67yr old
Oct 2003 great Dane kills 2 yr old
April 2004 Bull Mastiff kills 8yr old
Mar 2005 Rottie kills 32 yr old
April 2005 American Bulldog kills 82 yr old
May 2005 Alaskan malamute and a Husky kill a 2 yr old
May 2005 Alaskan Malamute kills a 7 yr old
July 2005 Am Bulldog and Neopolitan Mastiff kill an 83 yr old
July 2005 Husky kills 6 yr old

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Karl Schuub

12:19 pm on Wednesday, May 2, 2012

So you found one fatal mauling by a lab in 1998 vs the now hundreds if pit attacks...and by the way according to you nobody would ever know it was really a lab since apparently nobody knows what sort of dog they own. Might have been a pit bull I mean the two are nearly indistinguishable. Rolleyes. By the way Pit Bulls are banned in Australia and most of Europe already - hasn't kept people from owning dogs. Lastly, we also had a Doberman when I was a kid and it made the neighbors very nervous. The lesson here is my parents were courteous enough, civil enough to understand keeping an animal that makes people frightened isn't very civil, nor neighborly. They found a home for it on a farm.

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Kris

12:29 pm on Wednesday, May 2, 2012

Actually there were a few, along with kills credited to a dachshund, Jack Russell, and many mixed breeds of non pit bull origins. Of course there is no point in arguing with you because obviously no one regarding their knowledge or experience is correct in your eyes. So just keep on rolling them.

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Able Baker

1:29 pm on Thursday, May 3, 2012

Other than raising insurance premiums, excluding people from housing and lowering the standard of proof in a court of law, you're right, it doesn't affect pit bull owners.

It does, however, make it much easier for people to sue landlords, which have deeper pockets than your average dog owner.

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Able Baker

1:55 pm on Thursday, May 3, 2012

Dogs kill fewer people than lightning strikes.

Kris

9:43 am on Wednesday, May 2, 2012

People need to educate themselves before they ever consider getting a dog. I see way too many people with breeds that they really have no business owning in the first place, be it a APT, a Border Collie or Sheltie. Each and every dog was bred for a purpose and that purpose is instinct. Dogs are not a fashion statement and they are not a status of machoness. They are animals that need the right person to understand why they were originally put on this earth in the first place. Lastly I will say to everyone who says my dog is wonderful and I leave my kids alone with it. Dogs are not human... They do not think like us. At any point a dogs natural instinct can be triggered and it is a recipe for disaster REGARDLESS OF THE BREED. I cant tell you how many times I have heard my Sheltie started biting my child, ect and I need to get rid of it. Me being the person that I am will look at them and say and why do you think that it. The answer is simple... You got a dog that was cute and fluffy and didn't bother to think that oh this breed was bred to heard. Since it doesn't have a natural outlet for his instinct it uses your child. Education is the key. If you don't bother with it then you deserve to have the book thrown at you because you have a dog you didn't understand.

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Dennis Gilpin

10:49 am on Wednesday, May 2, 2012

Kris, Many people get dogs because they think they are "cute" without understanding how to take care of them. When I grew up I lived on a farm.I had at least 5 dogs at a time. Never had any problems with them as I trained them to be obedient.Gave them lots of love.People have dogs in areas where they shouldn't be.
Some get dogs that need large areas to roam and put them in apartments. I did raise Great Danes and friends would want one of the puppies.If one came to get a puppy I made sure they had the space for them to run or it didn't happen. The male tipped the scales at 225 lbs so it was a possibility that his puppies could also get that big.I now have a minature Schnauzer and ( as a puppy ) was really aggressive...to my shoes.Just like anything else he was taught not to sneak behind my back and chew up everything.If an animal understands what is expected out of him he will respond accordingly.Of course some are a little more stubborn and want to get that "last" shoe. If an animal is taught to be aggressive and thinks it is his role in life, they will attack without any regard to the damage they might inflict. I live next to a friend who has a Pit Bull. He attacks me everything I see him.let me clarify that, he attacks me with kisses.I think his tail will fall of from the way he wags it. It's all in the way the animal is raised.

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DS

12:19 pm on Wednesday, May 2, 2012

I think if raised to be aggressive yes they posed the biggest threat to society. You don't really hear too much about beagles attacking other dogs or kids etc. But if raised the right way I think you could have a good pet. For some reason these pets seem to be a favorite of inner cities. Maybe it is for protection purposes I don't know. So I think it is up to the owner to make sure they are raised properly.

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Tony Solesky

12:32 pm on Wednesday, May 2, 2012

This is not about aggressive behavior or untrained dogs, they choose words carefully at the highest court level. Those against the law must fight it in its context not yours if you want it overturned.
Bites normally are litigated by proving the owner is irresponsible and that lead to the aforementioned bad behavior. This is about understanding that a k-9 in material like steel is material. It is saying that if you shape that steel material into a gun it will be inherently dangerous. That that gun exposed to the norms of everyday life with its good, its bad, and its inexplicable elements will cause the most damage all else equal. This means if we left every dog owner as they are, good, bad and ugly and we gave them all Pit Bulls the death rate would increase per bite incident as it would go down if they all had poodles for a year. This is the same as the death rate would go up if we drove motorcycles for a year.
If a Pit Bull mauls someone it still has to be litigated it just is that you don’t have to prove that a dangerous material was involved to make your case. You still I/we still have to go back to court in our Towson case I have won no award or settlement yet. Read the opinion and understand you can’t change a word to mean what you want.

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Emily Kimball

12:36 pm on Wednesday, May 2, 2012

Find out how the court's decision could impact dog parks in Baltimore County: Pit Bull Decision May Affect County Dog Parks - http://patch.com/B-MYs

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Tony Solesky

4:27 pm on Wednesday, May 2, 2012

If anyone believes that a major componet of keeping people safe is accountability, in my case compensation for my sons injuries, When that tool is provided and it is in direct conflict with the product then that product needs to be managed better. What everyone is missing is this is about victims compensation that it would affect dog owners,car owners, gun owners or people who have swimming pools is a different issue. Once again if it does as apparentlly it is then these products need to be managed better. This is amount Animal Control agencies and Rescues who are anything but in control of the dog population and their mismangement is coming back to bite them. Focus your energy their not on victims of dog aatacks.

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Able Baker

1:35 pm on Thursday, May 3, 2012

It's pretty obvious this is about compensation. Why sue some schmoe when you can sue a landlord?

Tony Solesky

12:39 pm on Wednesday, May 2, 2012

The backlash is the sad part where people have mismanged the breeders by letting them breed unrestrained creating living beings for profit. They wind upin the shelters where empathy debilates logic. It cause those closest to it to be Like I love Lucy working in the candy conveyerbelt. The shelter people need to focus on the supplier not the end user. Read the last chapter of my book PET PROJECT www.dangerousbydefault.net I love dogs I am not the enemy either is the opinion.

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Tony Solesky

4:50 pm on Wednesday, May 2, 2012

As I was in 2007 then, I am still as perplexed now by how a dog mauling victims compensation rights issue has anything to do with a referendum on dog owners rights. Accountability is a fundamental to any public safety plan. Training, Equipment and compensation. Anytime one component is proper in this case "compensation component" and it affects one or both of the other two, the burden is on that component. Swimming pools are dangerous therefore they must be fenced. This component is to declare a gun dangerous or a particular dog breed inherently dangerous ( inherent -which is what the word breed means BTW). This reveals the horrible mismanagement of Animal Control agencies around the nation and ours in Baltimore County is no exception. This window blind is dangerous and now I won’t be able to have blinds on the window arguement, is as obserade of a response, as the responses have been to this ruling. You Don’t need to read the whole ruling, Read page 22 footnote 21 and then you will know why the park is fenced and you have to have a leash and maybe just maybe for certain some breeds are more dangerous then others. Take down the fence and remove the leash-law because having to use one makes me look like I have a untrained dog. That difference is my son was mauled not bitten. See photos for yourself www.dangerousbydefault.net

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Tony Solesky

5:00 pm on Wednesday, May 2, 2012

While you are at it go to the free e-book and read the last chapter. I offered a solution that works in other venues. last chapter PET PROJECT
www.dangerousbydefault.net

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Dennis Gilpin

5:47 pm on Wednesday, May 2, 2012

Tony, Many instances of people being mauled can be put on the owners. If the dogs are properly taken care of and always on a leash there would be no injuries.All owners of dogs have the responsibility of protecting the public.No person should be in the position of having to protect themselves from an unrestrained animal regardless of the breed.This should be a wakeup call to all dog owners that they can personally be obligated for any injuries from their pets.Pit Bulls can be wonderful pets but ONLY should be owned by responsible owners.Only walked when the people have the ability to restrain them.The law was put in effect because some of the dogs are used as a status symbol for protection and taught to challenge any person near them. Unfortunately it could be a child . The training starts with the owner.

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Karl Schuub

6:09 pm on Wednesday, May 2, 2012

Dennis - it's well known by now that in several instances of pit bull attacks people have beat them with bats, etc., with little or no reaction other than to continue to maul a child or another person's pet. The idea that a leash solves all problems isn't realistic - these dogs are immensely strong. Totally agree with every other point you make - there are lots of people who shouldn't own big dogs. Seems to me the ownership of attack breeds should be the exception rather than the norm; and with the majority of abandoned dogs being pits it's become the norm. Watch this video and tell me these dogs don't have something different in the way they attack which makes them inherently more dangerous.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEvchS9Solw

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Able Baker

2:07 pm on Thursday, May 3, 2012

Nonsense. Pit bulls are relatively small dogs. They top out at 70 lbs max, or about the size of a laborador. The idea that a dog that size is uncontrollable is ridiculous.

Karl Schuub

6:25 pm on Wednesday, May 2, 2012

Interesting watch the physicality of this dog. It's not just the fact that it seems to be intent on getting this "thing" which can be true of terriers as well, but the size and strength of this grip to go minutes suspended by a rope thrashing back and forth much like an alligator.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2B0UsqWaSSE&feature=related

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Dennis Gilpin

8:28 pm on Wednesday, May 2, 2012

Karl, My point is that the dogs should not be walked by someone who can't control them. This happens all too often or the dogs are not properly contained.The dog has the abilty to do tremendous harm and their owners can't take it lightly. I walked Great Danes who weighed up to 225Lbs and have the ability to really pull you if they want to. They were trained not to.The dogs who do the damage were kept by people who shouldn't of had them in the first place.Unfortunately ,these very people put the public in danger. Besides getting hefty fines they should get jail time.After that not being able to own a dog.

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Joan Wood

11:24 pm on Wednesday, May 2, 2012

This is so stupid. Years ago my family lived next door to a woman that owned a boxer.......his name was Lance. This dog attacted his family members with the blessing of his owner......several times I witnessed family memers being attached by this dog.......the womans husband would hide in the basement stairwell, because the woman was mad at him and had the dog attach him.........on one occasion I saw the daugher try to leave the yard and the dog attached her to the point of tearing off her coat in the dead of winter..........it all comes down to how the animal is raised and treated....pretty much like humans...........this is total BS if you ask me.....WAY too many people claiming it's the animals fault when it's nothing more than greedy people trying to make a buck on a poor animails misery..........YES.....owners need to be held accounatable for the actions of their pets.......but ALL amimals must be invluded...........as well as ALL breeds......all can be trained to kill...not just pit bulls.......I find it appaling that they are targeting this breed because of some REALLY bad people taking advantanage.........especially....when several people have reported their pets missing from their yards only to find their pets have been, starved and forced into this behavior......TOTALLY ACCEPTABLE from all concerned!

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John Dough

3:12 am on Thursday, May 3, 2012

BLACK PEOPLE BEWARNED!!!

First it's BSL then RSL (race specific legiation). They saw the shelters are full of pits so they must be a problem with the breed. Well look around the jails, mostly black. A problem with the race? NO a problem with the laws and how they r enforced. Watch that this doesnt turn into Nazi Germany, and we start rounding up blacks for the gas chamber because some black individual killed someone. Or some Chinese guy kills someone. Write your congressmen and ask for a repeal of these ridiculous laws before whole races are rounded up and put on a train to Auschwitz to be put to death because one member of a race commits a crime. Be warned and support the Baltimore no kill shelters.

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Karl Schuub

8:08 am on Thursday, May 3, 2012

So you think that additional penalties or financial accountability for people that chose to own aggressive dogs is the same as rounding up blacks for death camps? Then some random comment about no kill shelters...I know how you might solve the problem; heck all you no kill folks have such great ideas. Why don't you join with the cat people and we can release all the pit bulls held in shelters into our parks and forests...maybe out behind a MacDonalds or something then one of you can go leave food out for them. It'll be like a series of little pit bull families seeded all over Maryland. Of course they'll be fixed so it's the most reponsible thing to do......

Tony Solesky

6:46 am on Thursday, May 3, 2012

John Dough You better stop right now with comparing animals and humans. If you watch the hearing on the web in the highest court in Maryland Jan 9 2012 they do not repeat do not allow and in fact as me despise the comparision. I dont like and they most certainly dont like people elevating their pets to human stature. In my book I talk about this as the single biggest problem. They arre dogs and not children period. Thank God the court saw this if nothing else

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Tony Solesky

7:08 am on Thursday, May 3, 2012

You don’t elevate your point or your dog by comparing it to humans and racial profiling in the eyes of the court. What you do,
Is show them where the train left the track. It is called anthropomorphosis. You don’t breed humans, leash them, sell them, own or master them and you don’t have a biting and mauling problem with humans, These are traits and behaviors decidedly inhuman and yes it is the biggest part of what is wrong with what people think is the correct way to treat an animal. Just do what you do with kids right. The road to good intentions is as big a part of the problem as cruelty to animals. Anything that needs that to be suitable is not human. Dogs are mans best friend and when you treat them for what they are you have the best of both worlds

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Chelsea Danger

8:10 pm on Monday, May 7, 2012

It's all about how Pitbulls are raised, I have met some very nice ones so it really depends!

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Tony Solesky

12:16 pm on Saturday, August 18, 2012

All dogs are what they are by heredity, that is what breed means. Forget vicious they are fighting dogs and as such have a shape size and mental make up created to be best used for fighting to the death. A gun is inherently dangerous. You cannot train away a dogs heredity if you have a beagle he will wnat to hunt you can control weather or not you let him out to hunt but you can't remove his hunt. Pit Bulls where never breed even to be family pets anyone that tells you different does not know why you have only really seen them for the last 35 years. That happened because some caring people in animal rescue for years would recover dogs from all kinds of situations including house fires and Police raids. When criminals started using these fighting dogs for gaurd work many were and still are captured in raids. So where did they take them where they always have to the rescue and animal shelter? And what did these loving non expert people assume. They assumed it was or had been breed or has any history as a pet. They do not Nanny dog is a myth they are banned in England. they where never ever breed to be pets. I will go to any rescue and openly debate anyone or on TV and radio to tell you this is happening because those of you who support Pit Bulls are deadly wrong and many of you are just so damn safe that just like a gun in a safe your pit will never harm. Females are 70% less likely to be vicious among all dog breeds. Females as with most all dogs are to carry the Genes.

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Tony Solesky

12:50 pm on Saturday, August 18, 2012

She dedicated her life to dogs and animal rescue. No bad owner here. She is the best example of everything that those that promote dangerous dogs advocate for and her dogs did exactly what they where bred to do. Reality (-) Preception (=) Fate
No matter what her heart was in the right place and she was a good human being trying to do what she thought was right. I feel so sorry for her poor parents and loved ones. If you are reading this you still have a chance to do something about this. http://www.newsday.com/news/woman-who-rescued-animals-is-killed-in-dog-attack-1.3910890

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phil w.

9:04 am on Tuesday, August 21, 2012

I own a pitbull, she is a very gentle, intelligent, life loving family pet, she would never bite any family member for 2 reasons, she has been loved and the family doesn't do anything that might provoke her, you can teach any breed to be aggressive, however like any other dog she will protect her territory, that's just in their nature whenever someone comes over that I'm afraid she might bite, I simply remove the threat, I put her in the kennel, age shouldn't and wouldn't play a factor in her biting someone, if you come in my house uninvited you deserve what you got coming from her, bottom line is to be responsible, love your pet and keep her and the loved ones around you outta harms way by treating them right and educating the other people and family members, all dogs have different temperments, learn yours and treat it appropriately.
Phil

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Tony Solesky

9:42 am on Tuesday, August 21, 2012

Phil, that is the difference between inhernetly dangerous and responsible ownership
one does not imply that the other can't be done safely and responsibly. It simply means that because of the inherent make up of the dog you must do the things that you do or suely left to its own devices it will pose a substantial danger. That said not all dogs are inherently dangerous and not all can be made agressive. In fact their are many more breeds of dogs that will become more timid with aggressive training that is also by heredity.

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Ashley

9:50 am on Tuesday, August 21, 2012

I was at a cookout over my friend's house this past weekend, she has a pit. Sweetest dog ever, she's never had any issues with the dog until this weekend. Her pit and her other dog got into a fight over a drip pan and the pit immediately lunged for the other dogs throat. Had the other dog by the neck and kept trying to swing her around by it. The other dog just kept trying to get away, wasn't really attacking her pit, just defending. It was violent and frightening to watch, not to mention it took several men to break them apart.

They can be the nicest dogs, but they have killing instincts whether some people want to admit it or not. It just takes the right circumstances to bring it out.

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Julia Yarnall

12:14 pm on Monday, August 27, 2012

Jane,

You're an idiot.

Sincerely,

A long time pit owner

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Tony Solesky

2:05 pm on Monday, August 27, 2012

Brian, repost the question you are talking about from Chris. I actually took it the Chris suported my view and was giving and wxample of why it is a good ruling. In addition my answer was just replace the word Blame with responsiblity. I thought that was a complete anwser. As far as money you have no way of knowing what my sons ionjuries cost us. So you have know way of responding to anything other then what you imagine is my motivation. As far as Public safety no one has paid any money I know of as a result of the ruling and I did give a complete layout of a placement policy which I have submitted to state local and county officals as far back as 4 and 1/2 years ago. The money in my suit is all about compelling people toward safety as you cannot show any proactive example of the disscussion on this level until I brought and one suit. Again what are you doing about it? Brook animal agression is not a favorable trait to someone who love their pets and far more pets are injured and killed each year then humans. Also it is ridiculous to assume that regalar Pit Bulls are human agressive but rather that when they are triggered to bite as with APBT they will bite to kill man women or beast. As far as any and all comments yes I put them out there and of course your sense of what I mean reflects as much on you as what I say reflects on me. So again what are you doing to get things fixed?

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