So 1 min after the presentation starts the crowd gets restless. Zoning should not even have a public comment forum. Why beat up people who are abiding by the law, using private property. We do not get a vote on how private property is used. There are people who would still have us voting on if the 'right' people moved in next door. Courtland Hardware has survived Home Depot, Boyd and Fullford survived Walgreens/CVS/Rite Aid. Good local stores will still survive. Mediocre ones will get hurt. This has always been the case since Korrvettes came to town.

I do love the comments - if you lost three pets already, Wal-Mart is not going to hurt you, but maybe you should rethink having pets.

As for the person who took the survey of his neighbors to see if they wanted Wal-Mart, you should be glad we did not do the same survey to the neighbors before you moved in to see if they wanted you..... 15% being OK with it might seem high.by comparison. Just be glad we don't take survey too see who gets to move it. That used to happen, but the courts rightfully found it illegal.

Was this place just packed full of idiots or what?

No this was about half an hour into the presentation.

There was so much change in the format, from people calling out comments from the crowd to groups of people moving to the front for comment, that it turned into a hybrid of notes and videos. I will post more throughout the day Friday. Law enforcement said the auditorium was nearly filled to its 900 person capacity.

I left the meeting and went to the Abingdon Target I followed 6 cars from the meeting they all pulled into the Abingdon Wal-Mart. F-ing idiots. I bet you will be the first in the doors at the new Wal-Mart. You all are the BEST BEL AIR has to offer. That’s why I live in Abingdon and got the hell out of Bel Air.

BTW, there is a community meeting about bulding nearly 100 apartments right across Rt 24 from the proposed Wal-Mart site.

If Wal-Mart wanted to build a store on Mars, the libs would come further unhinged. Wal-Mart, big oil, big pharma, and big anything are all targets of unbridled hatred and derision from the left; yet, they shop at Wal-Mart regularly. In a year or so, they'll be running the aisles of this new Wal-Mart packing their shopping carts with arugula and tofu, all the while neglecting the soap and personal hygiene aisle. I was especially entertained by the lady from Bright Oaks who stated she can't sell her house now with a Wal-Mart in her front yard even before construction has begun. Construct a Birkenstock and Prius plant here and the community won't utter a peep.

So let me get this straight: You move to a community in the designated development envelope and get bent out of shape when someone wants to develop a piece of land commercially that is zoned for commercial development. Makes sense to me!

You people would wine and complain even if they offered you money and free stuff. Wa, Wa, Wa.......Move if you dont like it. By the way the lady who called them "Bel Air" people, Bel air people are from 21014

To Elder Steve Chimmel: You mean "whine", but I'd love to have a glass of wine. Thank you!

I was at the meeting and people vented their frustrations. Will it do any good? I don’t know. My personal belief is the traffic issue will be the problem. I thought I was going to be late for the meeting because the traffic was bumper to bumper just to get to Patterson High School and I live just a couple of miles away. I know, I know, just the usual anti-Walmart rhetoric. Blah Blah Blah they heard it all before.

I‘m already mapping my alternative routes through Tollgate Rd to avoid this traffic. The locals will also do the same. It will be all the Walmart shoppers caught in the holiday traffic web for hours and I guess us locals will have the last laugh. If you build they will come but I hope they are very patient people because they will be stuck for hours.

Oh well you win some you loose some. I’m looking forward to seeing my local representatives in their next job as Walmart greeters.

Residents of Bel Air should consider our County Council who quietly changed the zoning. Think about this the next time you vote. Traffic will be a hugh issue with this Walmart. State Highway Administration knows what an impact this will have, therefore not allowing an entrance off 24. Who in their right mind would think that entrances off of Plumtree and 924 would be better? Walmart owns the property in Abingdon, why not expand there or look into the "stipulation" of no groceries until 2018 being changed, or simply wait. Traffic is always a nightmare down there. Plus....24 hour Walmart, are you kidding me?

Anita, Concerned Bel Air Resident

The traffic engineer is using the Institute of Transportation Engineers Trip Generation Rate for it's trip generation numbers. You can see these numbers by going to
http://www.ci.troutdale.or.us/publicworks/documents/itelanduselist.pdf Now these are peak hour numbers and they are per unit, a unit is 1,000 sq.ft. so the proposed Walmart is 185,706 sq.ft. which equates to 185.7 trips per unit.
I spoke to the Traffic Engineer last night and they are using 4.61 Trips Per Unit (or 4.61 x 185.7 = 856 trips per hour (TPH))as taken from the "Free Standing Discount Superstore" description(as shown on page two under the Retail Section.) I do not believe this is the correct number. They should at minimum be using a Supermarket which generates 10.5 Trips Per Unit (or 10.5 x 185.7 = 1,950 trips per hour), and that number should even be higher if they are to be open 24 hours. Look at a Convenience Market open 15 to 16 hour a day it generates 34.57 Trips Per Hour (or 34.57 x 185.7 = 6,420 trips per hour), or a 24 hour Convenience Market 52.41 Trips Per Unit (or 52.41 x 185.7 = 9,733 trips per hour), or how about a how about a Pharmacy/Drugstore with Drive-Through Window which generates 10.35 Trips Per Unit (or 10.35 x 185.7 = 1,922 trips per hour). Anyway you slice it the number should be higher than the 4.61 Trips Per Unit that the Walmart Traffic Engineers are using in their study.........continued.......

Now these numbers are per hour so they are multiplied by the hours open so for instance if they are open 24 hours and you use their 4.61 Trips Per Hour you get 856 TPH x 24 hr = 20,544 Trips Per Day (TPD), using the 24 hour market 9,733 TPH x 24 hr = 233,592 TPD. Also keep in mind that these numbers can be reduced by 40% for the "passby" trip reduction. What that means is people may be in the area in the area and just happen to stop at the Walmart. In other words you would have traveled that road even if there was no Walmart at that location. So 20,544 TPD would be reduced to 12,326 TPD and the 233,592 TPD would be reduced to 140,155 TPD. The bottom line to me is the Traffic Engineer is using numbers that fit the store instead of using correct numbers which would show that the store does not work, they seem to be shoe horning the model to work with the surrounding area.

Who is to blame? Look no further than our friendly council member "Capt Jim" McMahan, who was elected to look out for our interest. Surely, he should have known that voting for commercial zoning of the site would likely result in this or some other big box store. So he showed up last night. Too little, too late. Yet we will vote for him in the next election. As for the meeting, most of the initial speakers had great comments, especially about the traffic and the need to put pressure on the county executive and the Planning and Zoning. However, our credibility was seriously undercut by the boorish shouting down of the Walmart speakers; the ridiculously insulting comparison of this to 9/11; the rant about illegals and people who speak Spanish; the incivility of one who droned on and refused to give up the microphone so others could speak; the ironic complaint about three pets that were allowed to run loose and (surprise) were hit by cars; the totally off-topic rant about people not following the white arrows in the Walmart parking lot; the strange references to rapes and murders at Walmart; and the sophomoric acting antics of someone trying to "sell" some idea, the nature of which was never clear.
Finally, how serious is our community when about 90 percent of the people left before the meeting ended? Maybe they needed to get to Walmart.

If Walmart wanted to stay in Abingdon, I think we all know they would send in a bus load of lawyers and change whatever they want to in their existing lease.
As for those here who think anyone with an opinion on this matter is a "winer", these are the usual group of haters who slams government at any opportunity, yet they seem to feel that we should just go along with them in this situation. I suppose this is the PRO-Walmart side of the room, who said nothing last night, so apparently they went home, practiced their spelling and put forth their wisdom onto this forum.

Pending Approval Frank
10:42 am on Friday, July 20, 2012

Sorry I missed this one. Well, if you don't like a Walmart, how about making it something else? Like it or not, something is going in there.
Down in Chase Maryland there was some agricultural land slated for development. The neighborhood fought it and won. The owner then converted the land into a large swine operation.(Pig Pen)

Rmember back ovber in Edgewood there was a large natural area that the owner wanted to develop into a shopping center? Well, there was a general opposition to it and they won. So the developer sold off all the timber, landscaped it and waited until this clay pit lost any local support. Hence we have a strip mall there complete with a Mars grocery store.

'Nuff Said

Think back s few yesrs and there were marches and pickets at the proposed new Khols site in Forest Hill, They were just like the rude unruly mob I saw on TV last night. Guess what? The store was built and they survied and most of them now shop at that Kkols. Every new addition to the area is met with the same objectrions. They don't stop to think about the positve finanical impact on the county and the local job market. Everyone thinks we are still Mayberry USA. We aren't. I grew up across from the Tollgate Center and enjoyed the pleasant view of the farm that was there first but didn't fight the progress. I have lived in Bel Air for over 50 years. How long have those screamers from last night lived here. I am enjoying the convenience of local shopping. and not having to travel 20 miles to go to a dsepartment store as we once did. Bel Air has changed and the old town is not coming back. Accept it!

Here is some information on Wal-Mart. And yes the do have 2 level stores.
http://www.walmartstores.com/pressroom/news/5835.aspx

Also, Wal-Mart also builds smaller stores called Neighborhood Markets. This is mainly groceries. This could be an alternative then having a Super Wal-Mart built. They can keep the other store open. http://www.walmartstores.com/AboutUs/7606.aspx

I was at work during the meeting but it seems exactly what I thought would happen, happened. A large emotional reaction.

http://belair.patch.com//articles/walmart-25a4a987 for those who haven't read the previous discussion before the meeting.

I'm with volunteer mom, concerned citizens need to voice their concerns. Use of degrading words towards groups just shows ones' intelligence. I hate to say, the meeting was probably just a dog and pony show. We tried to keep Kohl's out of Forest Hill, but it didn't work. Too many padded pockets and others hands deep into them. Yes, we all know.

@Chris - good one!

I have lived in Bel Air area all my life (60 years) our back yard was a farm on the Kelly Property.
When the Race Track closed and Harford Mall opened I swore my money would never be spent there.
I shop at the mall from time to time now. When Bel Air Plaza was built the same emotions were felt.
I also shop at the Plaza on occasion, it's hard to let go of the past and the way thinks have
changed to my beloved town. I now live in Abingdon a few miles from the proposed Wal Mart the
time to act was when the land use and planning council had public meetings on the sale and use.
I would like to think enough public outcry to stop development of this type would help, but
know better, if not a big box store what will take its place? Harford county is growing faster
than any outer county in Maryland. Stores will come, developments will come, get involved with the
county counsel, Vote out the incumbents who refuse to act on your behalf.
Good by old Bel Air

I tried to warn you. After reading the minutes so far all I see is people trying to blame Wal Mart for their problems. I am really sorry you lost 3 animals. You gave no indication of how you lost your animals but if it was because of traffic then you need to contain your animals. To the lady who's house isn't selling, well welcome to the reality of the housing market. No one can sell their house. This isn't Wal Mart's fault... I was hoping these people could come up with a better argument.

Can any of the 900 people here explain to me why Festival at Bel Air isn't an issue but Wal Mart is?

Richard S*** do you work for Walmart. I get the impression that maybe you don't live in the area and maybe work for Walmart.

Richard S*** The Festival at Bel Air does not bring people from surrounding areas into our community. Walmart will bring large amounts of traffic into our community.

We want a Walmart there at that location. Best place as the traffic is already coming through there and it would keep out small vacant bldgs that are already all over. Funny as Fallston said they didn't want a Walmart and I see many Fallston people at that Walmart. Having Walmart there would improve the traffic conditions of that area. The people that are already in the area would use the Walmart. funny as some of those protesting Walmart are already traveling to Walmart in Abingdon....this one would be nicer and full service and would clean up the area nicely.

What is the matted with us? We should focus on what we haven't got, like a large XXX video store complete with smoking paraphenalia

Frank, Those are reserved for "those people" down in Aberdeen and Edgewood... as so many have hinted to already. "Those people"

I 100% believe that we should voice our concerns about issues in our neighborhoods. I strongly believe in that. But I believe in this case we didn't do our part in the responsibility for being involved enough to know this was happening. When the land was rezoned no one paid attention... Now only after the fact are people reacting to the situation. Since I think the battle has already been lost I say lets make the most of it and petition to improve "their" design on the proposed plot. We nee to make sure crosswalks, sidewalks, landscaping, and such are adequate for safety of bikers, pedestrians, and motorists.

I'm starting to feel sorry for Walmart, I think they have been duped. I mean they will loose their visibility from the busy route 24-I 95 intersection. Their main entrance to the store will face 924 to a bunch of people who don't want them there. The traffic study may be underestimated so when the holidays come their main entrance will be choked off thus loosing sales.

I think Walmart might not have thought this through. Is this change of location in their best interest?

Face it folks you don't live in Kansas anymore. Bel Air area is booming as it conveniently sits at I-95. "Build it & they will come". For a so-called bad economy ---drive through Bel Air & vicinity where the restaurants are on a weekend night, heck even during the week, and they are full of patrons.........I know this is off topic but put the Walmart in its new location & I will bet money you all will go..........

Richard S****r is right, communities wait too long. People or sheeple, should I say, don't or haven't been educated or haven't taken the time to educate themselves on how the planning/zoning process works. I believe you have to catch it in much earlier stages. This meeting, as I said earlier, is more of a dog and pony show. Everything is going to go on as planned. IMPORTANT****** This is the same thing we are facing with the presidential election this year. PLEASE, do not think you vote does not count, so why bother. PLEASE vote this socialist out, or talk about whining and complaining. Our great country can't and shouldn't be bankrupt........please, please be ready to vote. Vote for the less of two evils if you must, but vote!

We need a citizenwide group of folks that care about the direction of growth to be aggressive and organized - you can't stop developement but you can help make it smarter and more fair to all - the tail shouldn't continue to wag the dog. Abingdon should never have been the dumping ground for all retail expansion - wasn't fair to them, but now they're moving down the road - it's creep and I'm bettin' the folks in the S. Belair corridor used to thank thier lucky stars that it was Abingdon, but it goes around and it's coming for you, yes you Jarretteville and Fallston. Walmart had their shot at Belair and they got Constant Friendship but they don't want it anymore...so sorry you made the wrong choice but live with it because we have enough stores shoehorned into that corridor already. At the bottom of all this is the inability of the county to control it's budget and the spiraling costs of government and that's what needs to be addressed or they'll sell this county to the highest bidder regardless of the mess lest in the wake.

Karl, You make a good point except those people are supposed to be the officials we elect to represent us... So the question is how do we get back to the origins of a quality politician that has integrity and good intentions with a head on their shoulders.

I live in bright oaks and i work at Walmart in fallston if the new store opens i could walk to work how long before i get hit buy a car rushing to get Groceries. I also sit at the intersection of 924 and bright oaks drive for fifteen minutes. How much do i have to wait with the walmart there an hour . hell no i dont want that in my backyard go find somewhere else to build ur store like mars!!!!!!!!!!

So i guess where the ball really got dropped was back when Rt 24 was to be built as a "Limited Access" Highway as an expressway to I-95. But some fine politicians who wanted to line their pockets allowed developers to put what they wanted on every developed corner and viola, a traffic light at every intersection. Does anyone see where the development problems really began and who to point those fingers at??? Unfortunately nowadays there's not much that can be done

Everyone is blaming Walmart, what about the family that bought that property stating at auction that they were going to restore the property but sold it to developers. And what about the developers that are making the property available to the big box stores. Many of us are homeowners who took advantage of the farms that became housing developments in the 70's and 80's yet we are complaining about the continued growth. What should have happened even back then was a master plan for smart growth. Route 24 was obsolete the day it opened to the public. While I am not for the Walmart on Plumtree, I still feel that it isn't Walmart that we should blame. It is the county representatives from various organizations that let the growth occur without a decent plan because their developer friends had a piece of property to make a buck off of that should be held to blame for Walmart even wanting to move to that location.

Driving by on route 24 you can plainly see the trees block any view of the proposed site of the future Walmart. I really think Walmart goofed on this site and they will close their doors in 3-5 years.

To recap, you can’t see their store from the route 24, they face a neighborhood where a lot of people won’t even shop there and the traffic pattern is so tight that they will lose sales from entrance gridlock during the holidays.

Walmart has to be truthful to itself. If they don’t like the traffic where they are now, a property which they own, good luck convincing future stores from leasing or buying this property from them.

Oh yeah it’s not about the traffic it’s about the grocery restrictions of the present site. Let’s see, it is easier to build a Superstore at a new site with all the red tape involved than get the restriction changed or wait out the restriction expiration date.

Walmart you have been duped by some savvy country lawyers.

The small Business Owner can't keep up with these large Box Stores.
Look around the Bel Air area, a lot of the Strip Malls have empty spaces.
The Small Businesses can't compete. I do believe that the home values will depreciate, with the new Walmart, look what happened to the Constant Frienship
area. I knew people that moved from that area when the Abingdon Walmart moved in. Why doesn't Walmart look into the Forest Hill area or Churchville areas, there's
an abundance of land in those communities. This area is overly developed.

Please stop the defeatist attitude. We need to keep up the pressure. Walmart has one-year to submit plans to the Development Advisory Committee (DAC) then there will be a DAC meeting that will be open to the public. The community will be notified two weeks in advance of the DAC meeting which are held on Wednesdays at 9:00 am. All the county reviewing agencies will be there so it is important that the community attend this meeting. In the mean time everyone needs to write the County Executive, Director of Planning and Zoning and Councilman. Be polite and state the facts of why you oppose this development. Here are the addresses:
County Executive
David R. Craig
Harford County Government
220 South Main Street
Bel Air, MD 21014

Director of Planning and Zoning
Pete C. Gutwald
220 South Main Street
2nd Floor
Bel Air, MD 21014

County Councilman District 'C'
James V. McMahan
212 South Bond Street
1st Floor
Bel Air, MD 21014

Why can't Walmart petition Bel Air/Harford County to change the restrictions on the Abingdon location so that they CAN expand to include a supermarket?
Not only will traffic be even worse in their proposed new location, but as someone who plans to move in the next year or so, I am no longer considering the area near the proposed new Walmart site because of the extra traffic that would bring to the area. So the people who live near that site now are right to be concerned about their property values.

I thought the original plan for Plumtree and 924 was to be something like The Avenue in White Marsh. What happened to that idea?

WalMart provides jobs for the community and this will be a nice addition, a definite improvement over the scrub brush and weeds that are there right now.

Spot on Jack.....

Personally I think there is something wrong when SHA won't allow entrances from 24 but the county will allow them on what is primarily a local 2 lane road.

I didn't realize that so many numbskulls have moved in my county and now that they are here.... it's stop growth ???

For those who don;t want the Walmart:
FYI- Comprehensive zoning is done every eight years BUT the county executive can initiate it at any time.
Craig can stop ithe Walmart by changing the zoning.