Sub "cats" for "birds" - sure wish we could edit sometimes..

I've done quite a bit of research about TRN since these controversies first arose. I'm bettin' you had lots of people from outside the county at this meeting. The people that follow this "movement' are zealous - it's thier cause...the young lady a couple months back who spoke at our county council meeting in support of TNR didn't even live in Harford County. These people will hijack this issue and try to pressure our council from places far and wide to adopt an ill advised policy. TNR might work in the city but not here. We still have lovely parks and wetlands, forests and fields where we have native populations of ducks and birds - we shouldn't allow these folks to spoil it because they have an odd fascination with cats. Educate people about spay and neuter, educate people about thier responsibilities as pet owners; don't make native bird populations pay for humane irresponsibility.

FERAL CATS ARE ADOPTABLE!! I adopted a feral cat and had her for 9 years. We were very happy and she adapted to indoor life COMPLETELY, showing her appreciation of rescue. She learned about using a litter box and used it faithfully until very close to the end, when I had to have her put down because of illness. I have 2 parrots, which she made friends with and could be left with unsupervised. She was truly a blessing in our lives.

There is no such breed as "Pit Bull" and most of the general public put a number of breeds and mixed breeds into this category. The breed most often associated with this have gotten a really bum rap (much like Dobermans and German Shepherds in the past). Ever watch old "Little Rascals" reruns? At one time they were known as one of the best dogs for children. ANY dog can be vicious if trained to be or abused. It always comes down to people being the problem.

Could you expand on that Mr. Thompson? What are you suggesting?

People in Edgewood cause a pit bull problem? Please explain....

Several years ago my boyfriend and I adopted a cat from the Fallston Humane Society who ended up being pregnant (we only had her about two weeks before she gave birth) and we ended up with four more cats than we had originally intended to. Which is fine, I love cats, but for as much as the Humane Society gets on about spaying/neutering your pets they refused to give us vouchers for the four extra cats we ended up with. We ended up having to spend a lot of money to get these extra cats taken care of. Which is really just a shame. They push so much about making sure you have your animals spayed and neutered and then they give you animals that are already pregnant (and don't tell you... boy is it a surprise when you come home from a weekend trip to four little kittens) and don't help you with the means to do so. They're just as guilty as the people who let their pets wander around and breed unintentionally.

@Ashley, there is new management now at the shelter.

I'm very glad to hear that Joan. As I said, it was several years ago, but it was quite upsetting at the time. We weren't upset that the cat we had gotten was pregnant, but that they had given her to us that way and then refused to help us get the other kittens taken care of. (Which was ridiculous since we were just trying to prevent that very thing from happening) We were told that we could bring them up to the shelter and they would take them, but that if we did that we would no longer be eligiable to adopt another animal from them.

It's good to know that things are no longer ran that way.

I don't know about dogs but for cats they just give you a voucher to get them fixed at a vet.

The shelter currently doesn't have a vet on staff to do spay/neuter. They have arrangements with local vets where they pay for vouchers to give to adopters to take to the vet to have the procedure done. The adopter pays a fee that is refunded when they bring back proof the procedure was done. A full time vet and behaviorist are in their future plans at the new shelter as soon as it's financially feasible.

You get your $50 deposit back but you still have to pay for the surgery and aneth/pain meds, which is discounted by the voucher but only by certain vets. When I took my cat mid-year 2010 to get fixed, it cost about $100 in total for the surgery/meds and i think the adoption fee was $95 so in the end i paid about $145 in total. Of course that was in 2010 so things could have changed more recently.

"considering the shelter has all adopted pets fixed before they send them home with anyone"

Karl, you are incorrect.

Your animal was a special case. Some animals are nuetered during their stay at the shelter, but it is generally due to some individual donating the money so that it can be taken to a vet's office for the procedure.

That is surprising. Thank you for pointing that out. Do you have the statistics on that? I have not seen any numbers published for 2011.

That is correct Karl. Current law will not allow it and that would be the first hurdle for any group that wants to organize a formal TNR program. Of course, that would be up for public comment and scrutiny.

laws can be changed.......and no one plans to dump cats in public parks...they plan to put them back where they got them......so they were already there

Laurie, a lot of the feral cats are hanging around restaurant and super market dumpsters because it's a food source. Businesses see these as a nuisance and they want them removed. So you can't take them back where you got them. Not to mention the feral cat problem is growing all across the US and more and more cats that people dump or allow to roam continue to grow the population. Somewhere along the line we have to get back to personal responsibility and put the blame where it belongs- on people- with stronger laws and penalties- and public education about what happens when they drop that cat or dog out by the farm and ride away. The animals suffer because of irresponsible people.

Good article Karl that clearly sums it up about "no kill" and Nathan

no disrespect intended but I do know a lot about feral cats and TNR first hand and theoretically and I know a lot about catch and kill both first hand and theoretically and can tell you that if catch and kill worked the problem would be solved because that has been practiced for many years. TNR is not always the answer but in many cases it is.....go spend some time watching hundreds of healthy terrified cats be killed like I have and then tell me what you think

Well Laurie I'm having a hard time understanding how you know about feral cats first hand and watched hundreds of terrified feral cats be killed if you are allergic and not a cat lover as you stated in the beginning.

In a controlled program TNR "might" work but there are too many that are not controlled and turn into hoarding situations where cats are not cared for, die of disease or starvation, etc. A controlled program would save some lives, but not all, meanwhile people keep dumping their cats.

But right now the laws of Harford county would not allow a TNR program, so the first place to start is a change in the laws and a legal non-profit group willing to step up and run a program. Funny thing is in the past discussions, the "no-kill" advocates don't want to actually do the work, they want someone else to do it and pay for it. The mantra of saving every animal regardless of room or resources is just not practical, or healthy for the animals to be in over crowded conditions. I believe Mr. Wysocki expressed a desire to start a TNR program. Why don't any of these people or groups ever step up and take on the feral cat program? With all the time and energy that is spent talking about what is wrong, they could be part of the solution and allow the shelter to handle the domestic, farm and exotic animals that they serve. Instead the cry is always for the shelter to do everything without room, personnel or resources.

I am very much a cat lover and have been involved and in rescues and shelters and TNR for many years and sadly have seen many animals euthanzed at shelters and no one likes to see that.......it sounds to me like this group is trying to step up and do something....that is why I don't understand your protesting.....I didn't see anything in the article about anybody asking any shelter to do anything...as far as I can see they aren't attacking anyone....just trying to organize people to implement programs...win win as I see it.....it helps the community....it helps the animals and it helps open admission shelters by keep animals from ending up there in the first place

Sorry Laurie, I mixed you up with Lauren above.

If this group "wants to pour more resources into existing organizations and fill in any gaps to ensure "inexpensive spay/neuter services, and trapping, treating and releasing feral cat colonies.", why didn't they start by visiting the shelter and finding out what is currently in place and what is planned. My understanding is during the meeting Mr. Wysocki was clueless of what was already in place here in Harford County.

In my blog on a dog I fostered and later adopted from the shelter I was operating with all the old rumors myself and didn't have the facts. To adopt the points of the MANDATORY "No Kill Equation", start monthly meetings open to the public telling people things don't exist and not have any clue of what the facts are and what resources are already in place, and planned for the near future, sounds like someone with an agenda, or someone who acts before they think.

I personally am very skeptical of his claims, as what is readily available publicly online , written by Mr. Wysocki himself, has already proven this is not some new idea of his that just came to him a month ago talking to his son, and the people he has aligned himself with over the past several years are others who have no desire to work together with the shelter and existing resources, and every desire to do it through a "revolution".

Exactly what I've found in my research Joan. These folks understand they need pictures of labs romping to sell the idea. Nathan Winograd; thier mesiah is insane. He thinks animals and people are equal...he thinks feral cats have a just right to survive equal to any human. These people will misrepresent anything. Easy to show a puppy and a kitten in your ad and we all sympathize, but reality is much different.

Nathan's not insane, he's a marketing genius, he's rich and getting richer. He takes a small salary from the organization but is making a "killing" in books and speaker fees. He managed to turn around a shelter, wrote a book, and marketed the concepts he used- some with good results, others not so good. But he's "marketing" well and getting richer.

Now that we have that established...Who are you Joan and Karl?

I was just curious, sir. You know so much about so many things, I just wondered who you were.

......and you are?????

I haven't met anyone who is opposed to working together towards the same goal- to save the lives of animals. I am aware of a number of partnerships that are already in place with the humane society and other possible pilot programs being considered.

The issue here- the "No Kill Nation", "No Kill Harford" movements -is they overwhelmingly don't want to work with the organizations that are already in place, or take initiative to start programs that don't exist or build shelters of their own. That's not to say there are not legit rescues that don't kill animals, but this particular movement, and it's leader follow a specific blueprint.

The ASPCA got a lot of heat a few months ago when they published a document about Nathan Winogard's "No Kill Nation" that is painfully true. They took it down pretty quickly because of outrage from other rescues and shelters who pride themselves on not killing animals but are not part of the "No Kill Nation" movement. Here's the document, called The Tactics of the Extremist Agenda,. http://www.scribd.com/doc/72104749/The-Tactics-of-the-Extremist-Agenda-ASPCA

If you look at the shelters where "No Kill Nation" has moved in, they have all followed this blueprint. It's started here in Harford County with what is the 2nd meeting of this kind and our shelter is now being targeted by followers of Nathan and his "No Kill Nation". It's their way or the highway. It doesn't matter if they are wrong. Control is what matters.

We all know the manta of the No Kill movement is that the shelters are kill crazy, all the people who work in shelters want nothing more than to start their day killing animals. That does sound ridiculous but there are plenty of people who actually believe that it is the choice of the shelters to kill, not a dirty job that the irresponsible public has bestowed upon shelter employees.

The No Kill movement also justifies itself by saying that the public is guilt free, it is not the public's fault that animals are in the shelters and certainly not the public's fault that animals are dying in the shelter. NK goes to outermost limits of madness by proclaiming that there is no pet overpopulation. Our shelters are full, strays running in the streets and dead ones lying beside the road and NK says there is no problem?
http://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/animal-rights/when-animals-die-shelters-who-really-kills-them?page=3

There are organizations like Animal Rescue, FARM and Luna's House to name a few who do not kill any healthy animals. Then there is the "No Kill Revolution". Two different things. And yes, saving all adoptable animals at open admission shelters can be done with the right facility, the right personnel, the right volunteers, the right partnerships and the right $$$$. After years of mismanagement and even hoarding in that tiny house that is currently the shelter, under the new management our shelter is moving in the right direction towards all of those things.

If groups are trying to "implement life saving programs on their own", I would venture the response would be 'Bravo! The more the merrier".

Unfortunately Mr. Wysocki's No Kill Harford website is almost a duplicate of Nathan Winograd's "No Kill Nation" website and Mr. Winograd's belief is ALL problems are caused by shelter management, there is no over population and it's all a "marketing" problem that people don't come to shelters to get their pets. He, and his followers, are not interested in working together.

Where is the money coming from to implement their programs on their own? Where is the plan to do so? The only plan on Mr. Wysocki's website is the "No Kill Equation" where everything is mandatory to be done a certain way, no exceptions, and it's on someone else's money.

Just a clarification, the organizations I mentioned do not take in feral cats, just domestic animals- cats/dogs

BTW, the figures quoted here are from their 2010 IRS 990 form.

What is your point, Ms. Neidhardt? From reading the above article I don't get the sense that Mr. Wysocki or Mr. Winograd are trying to do away with the local shelter management. I do not see any complaints against this group from shelter management, the BOD, animal control, local government, the community... What are you upset about?

That's a fair question Christine. After decades of feeling nothing but dread when thinking about the humane society here in Harford County because of the reputation of killing way too many animals, I finally have hope that things have made a major turnaround with the current management and we are finally moving as close to "no kill" as possible. They not only have a solid plan but have gained support from county government, animal control, and even veterinarians that once spoke out against the shelter, and are building partnerships with rescue organizations. They have acquired funding from the county for a new actual animal shelter building and their strategic plans include the addition of a full time veterinarian and behaviorist, public education and eventually low cost cost spay/neuter. Considering what the current management walked into, I'm amazed how far they have come in such a short time.

When I wrote my second blog follow up I was criticized for not researching the opposition to the shelter- groups like HOPE and No Kill Maryland. So I took weeks to research these as well. What I found on a local level was a small group of people who have good intentions but either they didn't have the facts or they held personal grievances against the shelter management. On the national "no-kill nation" level I found a well oiled propaganda machine that draws animals lovers into false beliefs and promises, and uses them to force a radical agenda.

Wouldn't it make more sense to join forces and work with the shelter to reach the goals? For example, TNR is a long way off. Even if a pilot program was done it would take time to implement and evaluate the results before it would be considered on a large scale and then of course there is the issue of the law needing to be changed. Right now the current shelter building is not anywhere near the level expected today to take care of the needs of the domestic animals that come in. It's also a privately owned shelter, not a government owned shelter and has to work within current law. Feral cats make up the majority of animals that are put down in this county, followed by domestic cats. If the shelter doesn't currently have the resources to commit to feral cats and TNR studies, how does Mr. Wysocki expect to do so? Since there are people such as Mr. Wysocki who want TNR, why don't they start a non-profit and work that piece at the same time the shelter is working towards their goals? It seems like that would be much more efficient than having meetings and perpetuating old rumors about the shelter and cooperation with other entities that are not based on facts. Of course, that's what the "no-kill nation" does. They gain support by creating outrage, regardless of whether or not it's warranted. Mr. Wysocki's website and Facebook page are identical to other "no-kill nation" pages. That sends a red flag that Mr. Wysocki is either very confused or has an agenda

And why on earth would you ASSUME that No Kill Harford will not incorporate and go non-profit? Seriously? I believe you greatly under-estimate the dedication to animals and determination these people have to stop killing adoptable animals. Missing the bus!!!

I made no such assumption.

There are already doers accomplishing something, the leadership and staff at the humane society, but nobody seems to want to give them any credit for taking the lead long before the various groups trashing them even existed in Harford County.

The obvious answer, Joan, is that they aren't effective and go unnoticed because of that. These doers may be in groups that are too small to produce very much, may not have enough money to be effective, may not have enough volunteers to make a difference. Every little piece of the puzzle counts. You say they aren't given credit. If they were effective, credit would come naturally. There just hasn't been any positive impact that the public can see. The proof is in the pudding, as they say.

Actually Ms. Ruth, that's not the obvious "answer". It's an assumption which you cannot back up with facts. Do you follow the shelter on Facebook or read any of the news releases in local media? They are visiting schools to talk about the shelter. They have a chocolate fundraiser going on, are involved in the "The Town Goes to the Dogs & Cats" in Havre de Grace event that benefits the shelter, are part of the Shelter challenge, have an upcoming meeting to introduce people to being fosters to animals from the shelter, had a fundraiser with Ruby Tuesday last week. Adopted out 21 animals, sent 3 to rescues and 5 were returned to their owners last week, 37 animals the week before. Many long term animals continue to find homes through programs like the "Lonely Hearts Club" that reduces the adoption fee. They have partnered with Pets for Patriots. They are outreaching for sponsors and advertisers for events. They are preparing for the Bowl A Rama. They are listing animals for adoption. Honoring volunteers. That's going back just two weeks on their page, all while caring for animals being brought in daily. The shelter is busy DOING. What is No Kill Harford doing on their page?- talking about what other groups have done and the upcoming conference. Same thing for No Kill Maryland. The HOPE group too but they actually started a program "Hungry Paws" and kudos to them for that. It's the first after 6 months of "bashing" the shelter.

That's just what I'm saying, Joan. Only people who are following them would know what they're doing. They haven't made any broad public commitments, like that they're working toward no-kill, for example. They've done nothing other than what they should be doing to keep the shelter running. There's nothing exceptional. I'm not criticizing. I'm saying that nothing gets noticed unless it gets noticed. It will get noticed if it's noticable. They probably should hire a marketing person if they want people to notice what they're doing. I don't need "facts" to back that up. That's simple logic.

"A broad pubic statement"? Like jumping on Nathan's train?? The shelter will never be "no-kill" and in reality, no shelter is. It's all in how the numbers are presented. "No-Kill" shelters are still putting down animals with health issues and behavior issues. They just present it as X% of "adoptable" animals and only include dogs/cats, not feral cats that are handled outside of the shelters.. 90% is the goal of most "no-kill" shelters and when shelters sign on for that they have years to achieve that. The facts of "no-kill" just don't support "no-kill".

The humane society doesn't need to stick "no-kill" on it's banner to be doing as good a job, if not better than the "no-kill" shelters. They are already doing that.

People like Mr. Wysocki that call public meetings with no clue as to what the facts are, what the resources are and who is working together with who, do more harm to the shelter than anyone else. When I wrote my original blog I was under those same wrong assumptions and was invited to visit the shelter, which I did. I also researched a number of people and groups that work with the shelter and found those assumptions were false. Can Mr. Wysocki say the same?

Ok, Joan. Once again, why are you in such attack mode? If anyone doesn't know the facts, that would be you. The reason for the public meeting was to gather information on what does and does not exist and what can be added and who wants to help. Much good came out of that meeting...many contacts. I don't see you saying that you attended that meeting. I did see where you said that what you "heard" about the meeting was not like Mr. Wysocki's account of the meeting. I was at the meeting, and his account was quite accurate. So, I am getting a very clear picture here. You are fine going with "hear-say" while you accuse others of not knowing the facts. Pretty hypocritical, don't you think? You will keep bashing away at anything new that comes your way and, eventually, the bus will pass you right by.

"Ms. Ruth". Who are you? Hiding behind some moniker you could be Mr. Wysocki himself. Why should I put any merit on an anonymous poster's assessment of the meeting when you won't even identify who you are? The sources who gave me their assessment of the meeting have proven themselves to be highly accurate and non-judgmental over and over again, dealing with the facts only. If there is another meeting and I am able I will attend. I am also open to talking to Mr. Wysocki personally about his ideas but it seems Mr. Wysocki has no interest in even joining this conversation about his meeting and his plans.

That's right, Joan. Turn it back around. Don't take any responsibility for your own assumption-making. Sorry - not playing that game.

You're right - because it's JUST TALK, and he doesn't answer to you.

Turn it around? You are an anonymous poster who could be anyone from anywhere. You may not even be a Harford County resident and taxpayer. I am and have a vested interest in what happens to animals in my county and at the shelter. You want to speak with authority but hide behind some fake name and give nothing to back up your claims except Nathan's website and book quotes. How about a nice independent study or audit? IMO Nathan Winograd's No Kill Advocacy Center is similar to PETA and HSUS- appealing to unsuspecting animal lovers and offering nirvana that is near impossible to achieve- all the while taking their money for books and seminars. How much of their money goes to help animals directly? How many grants are they giving out to shelters to help them reach his mandatory goals?

The reality is "no-kill" will not work in every case in every location. Google "no-kill failure" and you can see scores of them. To make such an outlandish claim that the ONLY way to run things is using Nathan's mandatory equation, while ignoring the failures, is ridiculous and the words of people who either bought the kool aid or are making the money off them..

Karl, I am so well acquainted with no-kill philosophy, it would make your head spin. I also see a lot of mistaken representations made here and links to questionable sites used as references. But that's neither here nor there, because I'm saying that the future of animal welfare in the State of Maryland will be what it will be, and that will be determined by the people who take on the burden of making it what it will be - the doers. I think it's great that you adopted your dog from the shelter. You saved a life. But what about the other thousands of healthy, adoptable dogs in Maryland that die in shelters every year? That's what I mean by "doing something." Find a way to make the fate of those animals more hopeful.

Even more reason for those wanting to help to find out the facts and to work together instead of trying to divide people with false claims about what is happening in Harford County.

Yes, Karl, I do deny that. But I did go back and read the "article" that you referenced by "Squiggly Cat" (seriously?). Frankly, if you believe that kind of ridiculous rant, there's nothing I can say to deter you. Your head is in a completely different place than mine, You want to believe it, so you will. Nothing I can do about that!

Even, if you toss that one aside, there are many links provided to well respected people who say the same thing. Perhaps the most incriminating evidence is reading Mr. Winograd's Facebook page daily and hearing it from his own mouth.

Two things, Joan. First, Nathan is on my news feed, so I see everything he posts. I haven't seen those things that Squiggly Cat mentions. I will keep a sharper eye to see if I see things that may be offensive to people (like the use of the term Nazi), but I haven't seen that yet. Second, I've been following HOPE and No Kill Harford. They are going to play a large role in the lives of animals, I am sure. HOPE just incorporated and started its first program. They will grow and their programs and influence will grow. No Kill Harford is brand new. Just stay tuned because I think you'll be very, very surprised by how quickly and positively their influence will grow. They haven't said a single thing about the shelter, except that they will implement programs to keep animals out of the shelter. I gather you are a representative of the shelter and are somehow offended by that? If you love animals, I can't see why that would bother you any.

Once again Ms. Ruth you assume, and you know what happens when you assume?

It's obvious you haven't read this thread to see the number of times I have stated that it's my personal belief the shelter would welcome other resources in Harford County to help save the lives of animals, the more the merrier. But if it comes with a radical agenda like the no-kill movement there will most likely be opposition from those that see beyond Nathan's slick marketing campaign.

There are shelters in the US that still use gas chambers to put down animals and some have terribly abused animals and fighting against them and demanding changes at those shelters, and changes to animal cruelty laws, are all very admirable. It's another thing when people in the "no-kill" movement brand a shelter negatively just because they haven't publicly declared they are "no-kill".

As long as Mr. Wysocki/No Kill Harford, No Kill Maryland, and HOPE keep worshiping at the altar of Nathan, and not allowing opposing views on their pages and discussions, I will have doubts as to their true intentions. It's something I hope I am completely wrong about, but only time will tell, and in the meantime, many will be watching closely.

I have read most of this thread, Joan. You don't even understand no-kill philosophy. A small lesson: When you end the life of a healthy, adoptable animal, you are killing. When you end the life of an incurable, suffering or aggressive animal, you are euthanizing. We are not against euthanizing. We are against killing. Therefore, we are no-kill. Get it?

I understand perfectly "Ms. Ruth". I also understand you can't hoard hundreds of animals stacked floor to ceiling and have a healthy environment in a shelter. Their existence no longer becomes humane nor do they remain adoptable. A few years ago another shelter manager attempted to be "no kill" and they had to put down hundreds of animals in a single day.

Until you are willing to come out under your real name, I don't see the point to continuing a discussion with someone who is so obviously biased.

That's what you do best, isn't it, Joan? You take the very exceptional case and build your entire argument around it. Pity. Ditto to you about the bias.

For every "no-kill" success there is a corresponding failure. It's hardly isolated.

Karl, there are other ways to keep animals out of the shelter. The new HOPE program aims to keep pets with elderly people who can't afford to feed them. There could be programs with low cost spay/neuter. Fosters for service people who are deployed. There are a number of ways that do not currently exist that could help keep animals out of shelters and support the shelter in it's long term goals. The whole feral cat issue is really separate since it's currently not allowed by law, and if the law changed tomorrow the shelter is not able to handle the volume or medical needs without negatively affecting the care of the domestic animals, so a separate group would have to step up to test and implement that over a period of years. (all of which the public would have a voice in).

It just seems most of these groups operate under a more radical mindset that the shelter is the enemy and they are the heroes. I don't see that fostering working together for the good of the animals.

Just so I don't forget, there is already a low cost spay/neuter program for cats called "Project Cat Snip".

Thank you, Laurie. After visiting the No Kill Harford website and facebook page, I don't see how Mr. Wysocki has in any way attacked the HSHC. Some people dream big. Since when is that offensive?

Your last statement really has been my experience thus far Karl. "Seldom do you ever find 'no kill"' advocates who are in the least willing to listen to anyone who doesn't mirror their world or belief system". Ms. Ruth has demonstrated that throughout this discussion. Nathan's followers tend to be very well meaning people who have bought into the idea that the only possible way to reduce killing is adopting Nathan's specific program, the "no kill equation".

In an ideal world, with all of the mandatory requirements, it would require a state of the art shelter with a medical suite, plenty of resources for veterinarians, behaviorists, PR people (and the budget to advertise) and other trained personnel, as well as a large bank of volunteers, fosters, rescue groups and others to farm animals out so you can "save" them according to your numbers. It's really just moving inventory from one place to another and making those animals somebody else's problem. Nobody, can build that overnight and even Alleghany where Nathan is giving out awards, still hasn't reached all the mandatory goals over a year later. So what's really the difference between a shelter doing all of the same things and a "no-kill" shelter? In Nathan's eyes they are not really "no-kill". In my eyes and anyone who has done the research, no "no-kill" shelter meets all the mandatory requirements either. Go figure.

Good question, Christine. I asked her the same question and she accused me of making assumptions. But she certainly speaks with authority, doesn't she? I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees through it.

You know what they say about opinions. Everybody has one, as do Christine and Ms. Ruth. Your opinion is not worth any more than mine, except I'm willing to put my name on it and they are hiding behind anonymous names. Mine is based on research well beyond talking points on anybody's website, or any one source. It would be great to ask Mr. Wysocki himself questions but since he has not participated in this thread about his meeting and ideas and has shielded any contact information on all of his online ventures, it makes it very difficult to do so. Obviously he has charmed some who attended his meeting but I'm not interested in charm, I'm interested in how he plans on pulling off all these grandiose ideas or why he wants to reinvent the wheel in many cases and not just help those that are already far ahead of him? Perhaps Christine or Ms. Ruth who are so close to him can convince him to join the conversation.

Christine, I have no affiliation with the shelter in any way so you and Ms. Ruth can stop wondering. On other threads, which included members of HOPE and other citizens and non-citizens, shelter management itself has extended the invitation to anyone who cares to take them up on visiting or speaking with them directly. I imagine they are busy continuing to work on the things that Mr. Wysocki doesn't think exist in Harford county.

Mr. Wysocki can do anything he wishes within the law without answering to anyone, but it's hypocritical to pretend he wants to work with current resources and only have contact with a select few groups that happen to be "no-kill"/Nathan followers that have been very vocal against the shelter. The largest "resource" in Harford County dealing with animals is the shelter. Logic says that's the first place to go to see what might be missing and where the holes are to plug.

I've personally invested a lot of time going beyond the surface of all of the various groups and people that have come my way since my first blog on the shelter, and I continue to do so. My interest is in the animals that wind up on the shelter's door. No other group or person comes close to what the shelter has invested, already implemented and plans to implement to save more lives. Every life counts and if 3 animals are saved by any of these community groups that's great, but the bulk still falls on the shoulders of the shelter and they need our support.

Nobody wants animals killed; I object to TNR as a primary tool behind the entire philosophy. You can't stack these cats in shelters so you move them outside...how perfect - a nearly endless number of acres nationwide with virtually no oversite. If we can talk about the shelter an erase TNR from the equation then fine but we all know that's not going to happen so what's the point. I think we need to take the Los Angeles model and move it around the country...as much as I hate federal intervention...there are federal laws involving protection of migratory birds. We can put a stop to this nonsense right quick with the interest of the feds.

I would agree the shelter would more than likely welcome other avenues to savings lives that other organizations might propose and undertake. The point being made was Mr. Wysocki scheduled a public meeting based on falsehoods about what was available and currently being addressed.in Harford County. That follows the blueprint most of the "no-kill" advocates take. When the only public info available shows Mr. Wysocki aligned with others who follow this blueprint from city to city, and those who have been harshly critical of the shelter, and he a history longer than his claimed month of wanting to do something, it seems inconsistent. What happens from here will determine if he's sincere and misguided, or a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Ms. Neidhardt, you could go to the next public No Kill Harford meeting and voice your concerns directly. It's always different when you speak with someone face to face rather than typing things out.

I plan on attending future public meetings. A health issue prevented me from personally being at the first one. I may write a future blog on it here on Patch once I have personally seen and heard from Mr. Wysocki himself. Perhaps I will live stream the meeting so anyone who cannot attend can also see/hear it.

....You can find comments by Mr. Wysocki on the No Kill Alleghany Facebook page that Peter runs as well. Yes, why on earth would anyone be suspicious?

No, they are too busy bashing a radio station and board who found unsanitary conditions and animals not being cared for at their shelter.

Why would he visit the shelter? He's working within the county, not the shelter. He's putting programs into effect within Harford County, from which the shelter will benefit. It is totally obvious what programs are needed, even though you say they are already in place. And I'm not saying those programs aren't in place, but they're not broad enough to have any impact. NKH will either enhance those that are there (if they want to be enhanced - a couple of ladies with a cat spay program made it very clear at the meeting that they did not want to get bigger or join forces - they just want to do what they're already doing), or will put additional same-type programs in place to fill in the gaps. Now I really don't see where you can have a problem with that, but, of course, you do. Whether or not NKH should exist or should put programs in place is not open to debate. It is here and it is doing it. Suggestions about people or groups who may want to help and ideas about ways to get things done better and faster are open topics.

Well Ms. Ruth, unless you are Mr.Wysocki in drag, you certainly seem to be speaking for him!

It's really sad that some people are so invested in Nathan's "no kill equation" that they refuse to acknowledge anything the shelter has accomplished and is accomplishing. Keep on putting out the propaganda that they aren't doing enough. Where have I seen this before? Oh that's right, it's part of Nathan's way of gaining public support and driving out shelter management. It's obviously propaganda since you, and apparently Mr. Wysocki, are clueless what is happening there.

Why don't you all just get together, build your own shelter and compete for the county contract since you are all so far ahead and have all the answers? Mr. Wysocki is posting he is having a hard time coming up with $40 for a meeting room at the library each month, but If you all think you can do a better job dealing with thousands of animals, not just the adoptable ones, that wind up on the shelter's doorstep, go for it.

Ms. Neidhardt, I have no investment in protecting Mr. Wysocki quite the opposite. I do not consider Mr. Winograd a messiah. I do however believe in a no kill philosophy and I am proud to live in a community that has already embraced No Kill. Things change, Ms. Neidhardt. It was a brave man who first said: Let's not use gas anymore, lethal injection is so much more humane. I'm sure that met with opposition in the beginning. The winds of change are blowing in your direction...Ms. Neidhardt.

I believe my comments were directed to "Ms. Ruth", "Christine" Are you one and the same?

As I stated previously and you conveniently ignored, there are groups here that do not kill healthy adoptable animals, but evidently Mr. Wysocki didn't know about them either. They are much smaller in scale and it's a lot easier to be "no-kill" when you limit what you take in to begin with and don't have more animals than you can possibly house, deal with feral cats, rodents, reptiles, farm animals, to name a few.
"no-kill" doesn't exist. The only way it does is to eliminate numbers from the population and focus on a specific group of animals.

Even Nathan's calculations about the number of animals dying in shelters versus the number of people wanting a new pet are massaged beyond reason to say pet over population doesn't exist. It assumes the only animals available for adoption are animals in shelters, totally discounting responsible pedigree breeders, puppy mills and backyard breeders.. It also lumps all the dogs and cats together and most shelters are overwhelmed with more cats than dogs. It's all smoke and mirrors.

I recognize that you feel a need to make combative and condescending comments in your replies but in order for you to insult me I would first have to value your opinion.

I was not insulting you, Ms. Neidhardt. It seems like the only opinion you value is your own. Did you notice that I am the only audience you have left? Good luck to you, ma'am.

and
January 13th, 2012 by WCBC Radio

A day after being taken to task by members of the public as well as some volunteers- Allegany County Animal Shelter Director Carl Brubaker appeared on WCBC’s “Dave Norman Show” to address the criticisms. During a Wednesday afternoon board meeting, the concerns about the shelter ranged from unsanitary conditions; a lack of communication; no accountability and a general lack of organization. One concern expressed by several citizens who had visited the shelter focused on employees there ignoring obvious problems, and seeming to lack concern for the animals. Brubaker said that is a behavior that will not be tolerated…

And here is the response from "No Kill Alleghany" aka Peter Masloch, who also works at the shelter

The ridiculousness of some people never ceases to amaze me. We learned that a reporter from WCBC Radio was sent ”undercover” to the Allegany County Animal Shelter in order to digg up some dirt. Seems like WCBC Radio now is doing the dirty work for other people. DIRTY DEEDS DONE DIRT CHEAP!
http://nokillallegany.wordpress.com/2012/02/02/update-dirty-deeds-done-dirt-cheap/

From the article, note the extreme comparison to Guantanamo Bay

Yesterday afternoon I attended the board meeting of the Allegany County Animal Shelter Control Board. After 5 minutes the goal of the meeting became very clear to everybody that attended the meeting: the assassination of a passionate Animal Shelter manager and forcing it’s own (kill) agenda on to the animal shelter. At no point in time during the meeting was the Board interested in hearing about the accomplishments and progress the shelter has made. It was very clear that the Board was trying to paint a dirty picture and deliver it to the public which was done through Bryan Gowans form WCBC Radio. The Chair of the Board, Peggy Mcdaniel, and her sidekick Dianne Care, who is not a member of the Board but always acting like one, conducted the meeting like a court hearing at Guantanamo Bay. Pictures, stories and people were prepared before the meeting in order to assassinate the Shelter manager and everything he stands for, same for the Shelter employees and the Volunteers at the Shelter.

February 2nd, 2012 by WCBC Radio

An aging, inadequate facility and a shortage of staff are the biggest challenges for management at the Allegany County Animal Shelter. The shelter operation has come under fire in recent months, including a report this week that cages aren’t being cleaned and animals are not receiving food and water in a timely manner. Emergency Services oversees the shelter. EMS Director Dick Devore tells WCBC News that a combination of a capacity shelter, too few staffers and a desire to avoid putting down any cats and dogs- can lead to some of the problems that have been identified…

and let's not forget what happened in the summer, 6 months into No Kill-

August 12th, 2011 by WCBC Radio

Dick DeVore, Allegany County’s emergency management division chief, reports that the Animal Shelter should be re-opened in a matter of days. In an effort to cleanse the facility of diseases that have broken out during the summer, the shelter has not been adopting out or accepting animals for about six weeks. DeVore tells WCBC News that unfortunately during that time many people looking to get rid of unwanted pets, simply abandon them outside of the shelter or elsewhere. He cautions anyone with that idea to reconsider as they could be sited and face charges.

Bingo!