Indeed, I'm not sure how a cop with a gun is going to help teachers keep kids in line.

Wow you sure make a lot of assumptions. I'm a widow, alternately called a "single mom". Who are you to assume that I am to blame for discipline lacking at home? Please back up your point with strong, fact-based statistics about how the discipline in my home is lacking with comprehensive lists of examples and how each example has led to my children having a behavior issue in the classroom. I'll wait.

Google it. It's not in dispute. Fathers are really important. I don't know you or your children so I obviously can't speak to your home as a specific example. Frankly, it's dumb of you to even ask me to do that.

I didn't do it to be "dumb". I did it because your post was rude, inconsiderate and thoughtless. As if "googling" something is the definitive take on all single mothers and their ability to provide good discipline for their children. It's ignorant and narrow minded at the very least. Proper parenting can be done by single moms and dads, step-families, same-sex households, dual households of divorce and any other combinations. It's not the style of the household, it's the mindset and dedication of the parenting unit to ensure quality in their children.

Miss, he does that...

Something can be considered rude, inconsiderate or thoughtless, yet still be true. Do you want answers or pretty lies?

Really? H.R. Pufnstuf? Regulate Educate and Prosecute has gotten Machine Guns off the streets. Remember you can't regulate drugs when anyone can grow pot, or produce drugs, but the manufacturers are licensed to build these weapons. Stop their sale and stop their use.. BAM!

Thom, I wish I knew what you were even responding to. Your comment is a giant red herring.

Thom,

Machine Guns (fully automatic firearms) have been a regulated item since 1968. Machine guns (NFA Class 3 firearms) require an individual to submit a BATFE form, signed by the chief of law enforcement, two sets of finger prints, and a $200 fee. Not to mention the high prices that start at $5000 and climb from there.

Since 1986, no new NFA Class 3 firearms have been permitted to be manufactured for civilian use (but they can and have been manufactured for law enforcement and military). Thus, there is a finite number of machine guns (all of which are registered with the BATFE), and when one becomes damaged beyond repair, the BATFE requires the firearm to be destroyed. This makes an already limited number of firearms even smaller and thus raising the prices for those that remain.

The last time a machine gun was used in a crime, per the FBI and BATFE was 1954.

Freaking hardly, H.R. Pufnstuf. Most rampage killers come from two-parent homes, that are conservative. Not from liberal homes nor from single-parent homes.

Interesting Chris, but my comment was not limited to rampage killers. I was speaking more to the run of the mill thugs.

Interesting side note, Chris, the Sandy Hook shooter was from a single parent home. Mommy got $200K/year in alimony which she used to purchase her guns.

"Single moms are primarily to blame for this." Why? The last time I checked it took a mother and a father to make a child..maybe if more Father's took some responsibility in raising their children, instead of just laying it all on the mother, or walking away completely things kids would be better disciplined..

Sorry that should have been "these" kids would be better disciplined. lol Not enough coffee today. lol

hahahaha this is why I read patch. Also, sweet name, that was a pretty kooky show

Actually, it does make it more safe by perhaps dissuading a rampage killer from attacking the school due to the threat of being killed by the armed officer/security guard.

Having armed offices may dissuade some, but I'm wondering in school shootings, the perpetrators, know that they will not make it out alive...I have often wondered if this is not their attempt to have suicide by cop..and unfortunately they take a lot of innocents with them...in which case armed officers may not be of any benefit, but themselves be the target, and a reason to go into the school in the first place.

You are delusional. Most gun violence is a direct result of the war on drugs. Legaize drugs and that will disappear overnight.

If you take away the good guns from the citizens, then only the government will be armed. That means those clowns in congress with an approval rating of about 20% will the most heavily armed people in the country. That will turn out well.

You have the insane part right. Go after the insane people with guns. Limit the rights of those with documented mental health issues.

Why continue to trot out your one trick poney of gun control that has been ineffective at reducing gun violence.

Look at DC.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324081704578235460300469292.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

Gun crime increased after the strict gun ban was passed. Once the ban was repealed, gun crime went down.

The 2nd Amendment was "interpretated" as recently as 2008 (DC vs Heller) and again in 2010 (Chicago vs McDonald) by the Supreme Court. In Heller, the Court found that a citizen does not need to be a member of a militia to have a right to own a firearm, reaffirmed that position. Justice Scalia did however, make the statement in the finding, that the 2nd Amendment does not bar the ownership of any firearm by anybody, hence convicted felons are ineligable to own firearms.

The 2nd Amendment (and the entire Bill of Rights) was written to limit the governments control and reach, and along with the Constitution, what the the branches of the Government may do, and it leaves the rest up to the states.

And I have to ask, if you think the 2nd Amendment is outdated, then by your logic, the entire Bill of Rights is outdated and should be changed? So then in addition to the 2nd Amendment being rewritten, how about the 1st (free speech), the 4th (unlawful search and seizure), the 5th (Self incrimination)? By your logic, all of our rights are outdated and need to be rewritten.

I would argue our rights under the fourth ammendment are iin just as much danger as our rights under the second amendment. The Patriot act has pushed the limits in this regard.

Chris,

You are correct and NDAA didn't make them any better as well.

Chris W..."You have the insane part right. Go after the insane people with guns. Limit the rights of those with documented mental health issues." This is a great idea but unrealistic. The HIPPA laws protect everyone (sane or not) from anyone accessing their medical information. The idea that a medical background check will be included when a person applies for a gun will never happen.

Chris W, just because you have documented mental health issues does not mean that you should have any of your rights taken away from you. Not unless you have a history of violence against actual living people other than yourself.

The only thing that statements like yours are going to do? Discourage people with mental health issues from getting treatment out of the fear of being marginalized and having their rights taken away from them because they get that treatment.

i sincerely hope the good posters here don't mind a comment on this subject from a Canadian...as one who is hoping to make this great country my home, I feel it is important to understand this gun situation from an American point of view...most Canadians, and I am one of them, frankly don't get it. When I read reports of school shootings here, and there was one in Texas today that was reported on CBC, our national news service...Canadians basically are saying...not again...there are many in my country that believe Canada should have a 2nd amendment...most do not, and have no problem with tight gun control..we have seen countries like Japan who have the strictest controls in the world, basically have next to nothing in gun violence...and yet our cousins to the south have so many. Would it not be appropriate to look at the opinion of MikeC...surely your forefathers did not intend, that the 2nd be used to indiscriminately be used to kill it's own people. Am I misunderstanding the 2nd, and the intent for having it? Thank you for allowing me to share your board.

"You should allow the school personnel, who desire to, to carry concealed."

Yeah, sure - allow untrained people who are usually not ex-military or law enforcement to bring guns into school. Sounds like a great idea - if you want more kids to get shot.

Ian, why do you assume that the local school boards and government would not set certain agreed upon standards for who they may hire as armed guards? I doubt hiring would be as willy nilly as you suggest. One must have some trust in the locals to decide who is and who is not qualified if they so desire to have armed guards.

Tammy I feel you have the answer to the problem in your last two sentences. There used to be a time when you lived in a neighborhood, you knew not only your neighbors next door, but all down the street..you knew that if your kid was out of sight, that some parent down the road was looking after them, and vice versa...neighbor helped neighbor. Now it seems that many people don't even know who is living next door. The big question is...how do we change things to get to the point of your last two sentences.

Guards, if there are any, should not be sitting in cars outside the school they're supposed to be protecting. They should be in the school office or in the hallways, at the entrances, etc.

I think there should be security officers equipped with body armor at schools. Not sure about arming them though. Most security officers I've met are complete nutcases who couldn't get into the police services because they're nutcases. Adding more nutcases to schools seems to me to be a recipe for disaster.

Mike - answer me this: How difficult would it be to overtake a teacher carrying a concealed weapon?

Answer: Ridiculously easy.

Processes and procedures were re-evaluated after Columbine, when the police realized that "hold tight outside until SWAT arrives" is a terrible plan in a school shooting situation. (Very similar to how 9/11 taught us "sit down and do what you're told" is a terrible plan for dealing with hijackers when they're planning on turning the plane into a guided missile) Had the officers on scene at Columbine entered the school right away, less people would have been killed without having to resort to teachers packing heat.

Frank your post of bullet proof doors and locks on classrooms begs a question..and maybe even about having armed guards patrolling the halls of schools...are you then not teaching your children that without these there is something to fear...As a Canadian, and tell me it's none of my business if you feel I am out of line, but as one who is moving to Maryland I eagerly want to understand this issue...are Americans not living in continual fear? I remember being here in the States just after 9/11...I was driving new school buses to a an American customer...I stopped at a freeway gas station for a break and there was a massive power failure...took out many northern states, and part of Ontario and Quebec in Canada...the people in the station were terrified, whereas my crew and I were not...we spent the time assuring fellow travelers that they were fine...I felt so bad for you guys...and I believe that with the gun violence here it is continuing but just in a different context. Americans are some of the most amazing people I have had the pleasure and honour to meet. I am actually hoping to marry one, which is why I am coming here...I have American family and my mother was an American...The US has accomplished so many wonderful things, can it not accomplish peace within its own borders, and allow its children the true freedom of growing up unafraid.

More postings at the upper limits of your intellectual ability Frankie.

They were elected to represent all of us Frank.

This article is about MARYLAND legislators, who are elected by the people of Maryland and who pass state laws from Annapolis, not DC.

I agree this be left to the states to decide but I also believe it is the responsibility for the federal government to help in this matter. Finance and training as well as license for guards could be in addition to state regulations. We have a well trained military why not use them for the training of guards .Knowing when to and when not to pull a gun is more important them knowing how to pull a trigger and hit your target. Let the feds help with but not mandate what needs to be done.

Military training armed guards for schools? Good idea. At least they would not be afraid of their "students" shooting them in the heads like the Afghans do to our troops in Afghanistan.

No, we do not have to accept more school shootings.

We can work harder to prevent crazy people from getting guns.

We can stop pumping boys full of Ritalin and god knows what else in an effort to make them behave more like girls.

The media can stop sensationalizing the events can providing the 15 minutes of fame.

There are many other things we can do.

Excellent post, Chris.

Chris, the problem is not that we want boys to behave like girls (whatever that means). It's that some parents allow their boys to behave like raving maniacs.

Ian,
Many of the school shootings have been by kids that were on drugs for ADD or depression. Probably close to 90%.

Most of these drugs have been studied in adults, but not in children.

In the 50's and 60's you could buy guns and ammo in most hardware stores. Guns were even more easy to get than today. Yet these mass shootings were very rare until the 1980's when the use of many of these pharmaceutical drugs became much more common.

VA Tech was the worst school shooting in history, and was carried out with a common handgun and a dozen or more 15 round magazines. A gun that is effective for defense can also be used for offensive purposes. We aren't going to eliminate misuse of guns by restricting them, nor will we make society safer.

LOL There is no gum show loophole" Keep telling yourself that....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baPgr_tw79Q&feature=channel

Get real, "Stank". Why would the Stank in Mom's basement care about what goes on in the schools?

Who says they should not be qualified. Anyone who carries a gun should be proficient in its use. Anyone expected to use a gun to protect others should be required to prove their proficiency by qualifying annually.

Having no requirements would be stupid.

How about armed coaches at the sports games your kids play? At least that way if the ref makes a bad call the coach can do something about it.

Better arm the workers at the day care center while you are at it.

Great post.

I would also argue that there is more we can do to prevent people with mental issue from obtaining guns.

Closing the gun show loophole is a reasonable action.
Making sure that mental health professionals have a way to report people who may be a threat .

What is a gun show loophole? I heard on the news it was that.shoulder thing that goes up.

Indeed. The crazies are going to fulfill their deranged desires no matter what. It's the responsibility of society to have measures in place to stop them.

A gun store must run a background check on prospective gun buyers. Purchaces at gun shows are often treated as personal sales that are not subject to the same requirement.

I have no problem requiring a background for all gun show purchases.

Frank, they have learned over time that the agenda of the anti-gun lobby is to do in small pieces, what they cannot accomplish in one move. That is why they fight against otherwise reasonable measures.

It's the same thing that liberals do on abortion. They fight against things that are reasonable , like parental notification, because they fear it is a step to larger restrictions.

Chris, there is no gum show loophole, stop watching liberal news media AMD made up terms. In the state of Maryland, it is legal and lawful, hence not agaikst the law nor a loophole to sell unregulated long guns to another Maryland resident, face to face anywhere.

All gun dealers regardless if they sell any gun at their shop or a gum show must process the firearm with the approporaite paperwork.

I would suggest you go through with the legal process of buying a firearm from a gum dealer at a Maryland gun show before commenting on the process.

Hyuck,
I've been accused of many things on these boards, but being liberal is not one of them.

There is a difference between you, as an individual selling your gun to another party, and a gun show. I fully support the second amendment, but we must also do everything possible to prevent people who are mentally I'll from obtaining guns. If that complicates the buying process a bit, that is ok so long as it does not prevent your average citizen from the exercise of the second amendment rights.

Individual sales would be nearly impossible to regulate without placing an undue burden on the seller or the buyer. I look at a gun show as a traveling gun shop with many sellers. I do not think requiring them to have a mechanism for background checks is unreasonable.

Chris W,

In the State of MD, If I buy a firearm at a gun show, I have to fill out a ATF form 4473, and the dealer calls for an instant background check. If it is a handgun or regulated rifle being sold by an individual, I still need to fill out paper work and have the MD State Police run a background check before I can take possesion of the firearm. Currently for personal Face-to face sales, shotguns and hunting rifles are exempt from the personal back ground check for face-to-face personal sales. It is not a "Gun Show Loophole" it is a non requirement in some states for face-to-face personal sales.

Turning schools into prisons is not the answer...If our society has devolved to this consideration we should be starting at the top making changes that will actually make a difference...putting the Barney Fife type of perceived security into public schools will only lead to a new round of problems ...not even a band aide fix...

I'm not sure Frank, but based on the inaccuracies that the media so quickly served up I don't believe that anyone has heard the truth here. From the quick draw coroner to the type of weapon that was used to the other suspected shooters that have been identified....maybe you should spend less time crappin up threads with pointless one liners and a little more time educating that narrow little sheep mind of yours....Do you actually believe this mass murder went down the way that the government would like you ..?....with all of the questions that remain..?
Can't wait for the next mindless one liner..

Obama, O'Malley , and O so many more control freak perceived leaders jumped on the gun control band wagon before anyone really knew the details, as though they were prepared for an event like this ....like horses in the starting gate..

You just flew into that plate glass window again Frank....

Buck, do you think that control freaks are newly arrived to government? Modern bureaucratic government has been about the business of surveillance and control since the olden days. It is about the "mass man", conformity, discipline and unequal allocation of resources for the benefit of the few at the expense of the many.

You may be sensing this for the first time. Damn intellectuals and leftists! We have known all the while, never suspected anything different

Buck, If you haven't realized it yet, the progressive tag teams who monitor this website on a regular basis, don't really want to have a civilized debate with anyone. If you don't agree with their agenda, they disregard common sense and pile on. They call you names, tell you you're stupid, smear you in every way possible, try to isolate you so you don't contribute, that way everyone else only gets to hear their progressive opinions. Those large egos won't allow them to see anyone but themselves. But you made the ultimate mistake, you said a "Owe" word. Owebama or Owemalley. That's when the sewer really breaks loose.

patricia sees them for what they are. Naggers.

Great question. Rather depressing.

Well, Penny, let me explain somewhat. Do not confuse virtual space with actual public speech settings.

People are no more rude, coarse or unruly than they have ever been. The anonymity that online communities afford leads to much more venting, much more confrontation, and harsher words.

These same media have contributed to a greater polarization of opinion in America and it shows up in polls and in vote tallies, except in Maryland of course.

Ha. This was a joke right Steve.

Next time read your own article. The weapon was not loaded.

The article also states that it was only left there for a few moments.

The "Stank" once again caught not reading his articles.

How long does it take for a tragedy to occur?

Every day on average 8 children are shot and killed.

.....and the sad part is that you Gun Nuts just call that collateral damage in order to keep clinging to your firearms.

You neglect to mention that it's the gangbangers that are responsible for killing kids, "Stank". Yet I never see you railing against them.

Steve,

I challenge you to Post a link to one comment, Just comment where anyone has referred to kids being killed as "collateral damage".

"I challenge you to Post a link to one comment, Just comment where anyone has referred to kids being killed as "collateral damage"."

There are hundreds of them. The spam blocker keeps rejecting my links. It comes back "Comment Rejected"

Ya sure.

Here's another.. Google says there are 5 million+ instances

http://www.ydr.com/letters/ci_22379009/young-children-collateral-damage-63

A letter to the editor, "Stank"? The "Stank" once again laid out and libbergibbering helplessly. LMAO

Really, a letter to the editor "Stank"? Looks like the "Stank" has been laid out once again. LMAO

Come on Frank. I meant on patch. I'm sure you can find one wacko out there even if you are not looking in the mirror.

Go back to The Daily Kooks website then Frankie.

No more then you!

Well in all fairness, Chuck, Japan looks a lot like that now and no one compares them with Nazi Germany.

Chuck, the average Aryan in the street was signed up 100%. They were concerned only with their Party and the party line. Everybody else was vermin. Sound familiar?

I think that group experiences temper obsessive thinking.

Sardines...as in trains to concentration camps...

I have found it necessary to occasionally respond at your level...glad to see that you get it...
Regarding my level of education...I graduated with honors from the University of Nunya..

Right in one. ALL schools should have at least one armed guard on the premises at all times when students are on the grounds.

Instead of taking a bite out of crime Obama is attempting to take a bite out of the Constitution....hardly a nibble at this point..

The un Constitutional INTENT is what I oppose Frank, and the use of this unfortunate tragedy as a springboard to cater to his socialist agenda...I oppose the use of Executive Order in opposition to the Constitution as well...it is a clear violation to his oath of office. He should be removed for this bad behavior...

All of them Frank....your beak is getting flat..

Which of the 23 executive orders that the President issued last week do you oppose, Bucky?

All of them!

As I have shown below, most of those EO's were not required for him to act. It was all bluster to make it lo9ok like he is doing what his far left base wants him to do.
NOT ONE would have prevented Sandy Hook and I have not heard anyone here explain how they would have stopped it. All feel good liberal emotional bull!

"First, the Director of the ATF is not "a Cabinet member". The ATF has been under the DOJ since 2003, but..."

So what! Still do not need an EO to nominate the director of the ATF!

FAIL

And Obama's nominee was an architect in the F&F scandal which was the failed international firearms running by the ATF in order to do what they had to wait for Sandy Hook to do.

'Fast and Furious' report slaps 14 at Justice, ATF

""More than a dozen Justice Department and Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives officials faced punishment Wednesday after a long-awaited report on the botched gun probe known as "Operation Fast and Furious."Within minutes of the report's release, Justice announced rthat former acting ATF chief Kenneth Melson was retiring and another official, Deputy Assistant Attorney General Jason Weinstein, had resigned."

"Justice Department initially denied guns were being allowed to "walk" across the border, only to have to formally retract that statement in December 2011. The controversy forced Melson out at ATF, but he remained in another post at Justice until Wednesday." Perjury committed by Holder.

And a Civil contempt charge against the JustUs Dept is still in effect and in the process of being adjudicated.

If he continues to push socialism, I hope he fails. As in, I hope he is stopped from passing anything.

Only when we're funding the socialist utopia on credit. As taxes go up support for these policies goes down.

There only so much of other people's money you can spend.

Correct me if I am wrong Chris, but I have no heard you complain about the corporations at the "socialist" trough?

For the record, I am against both individual and corporate welfare.

Sorry, Buck, I should have addressed the above to Frank.

Half of the Gun Industry is propped up by the Unification Church (aka The Moonies). I don't think they really care about profits. The Moonie paper the Washington Times hasn't been making any money either.

Of course, LEOs and military have to be exempt from the restrictions, so they can do as they did in Baltimore, where the cops pumped I don't recall how many rounds into one of their own unidentified plainclothesmen during a street brawl. Sad, but true.

With all due respect, the local grocery store where I live has an armed guard on the premises at all hours in a backroom watching for shoplifters. It doesn't cost that much for an armed guard per year, the one mentioned above gets 30K a year. The grocery in question takes in 10 million per year.

There may be no tyranny at the moment... in your opinion. But the point of an armed populace is to defend against tyranny at any point present or future.

There is a reason it is the second ammendment, it protects the first.

There aren't any dinosaurs roaming the earth today and I am not scared to death that they are coming back.

When I was kid I had a pocketknife and carried it everywhere, including school. So did almost every other boy I knew. Try that now, and see what happens. A kid might be suspended, expelled, or even sent to juvenile court, depending on the school district's rules. It's all in little freedoms like that, that we are having our freedoms TAKEN away - we are not giving them up freely, except by not resisting such transgressions. DHS is nothing but a nascent gestapo, and people should recognise it as such before they start hauling us to the concentration camps for speaking up.

Chuck, Senator Ed Kasemeyer, tyrant of the Democrat Party, has for 2 years straight introduced a bill in Annapolis to criminalize anyone caught carrying a pocket knife or any kind of knife on ANY State property. I too carried and still do a pocket knife. I would never leave home without it. It is used most every day for something or another. Hows that for tyranny?

No freedom is being given away.

I can't get on a plane with a pocket knife that is 2 inches long but it is okay to have that pair of scissors up to 4 inches.

It's there little Revolution fantasy. Between that one and their Rescue Fantasy, Freud would have a Field Day.

The people in Afganistan and Iraq did fairly well with them.

As I said, DHS is just a nascent gestapo, but as long as all that gadgetry is operated by humans, the possibility of resistance remains. The trouble is, so much of the politician run propaganda system is aimed at making people into little more than robots who will do as their "masters" dictate and not think for themselves or for their fellow men and women.

Ut oh, Chris W.... are you getting ready to lay the Death-with-Dignity riff on us?

Seriously, don't you think all of this is 2nd Amendment stuff is amazingly overblown? Like:
1. What could government possibly do about the 260 million small arms already in private hands?
2. What does anyone care about clunky hunting rifles and shotguns? (Incidentally, anyone who does not bring down their quarry with one shot is worthless as a hunter.)
3. What possible resistance could an entire armed city pose to the U.S. government troops viz. Baghdad in Desert Storm?
4. How could any sane individual adjudge that life in America is so poor, nasty, brutish and short as to warrant armed insurrection?

Ask Lorna Doom. Maybe she can "darlink" and "honey pie" a rational response--since after all she has earned old-timer superstar status here.

Unfortunately, you can't. You are too smart, I think.

Frank, that's the first step, admitting you have a problem.

Now to 1ke's points.

First, Hunting and armed insurrection are two different things. If you miss a deer with your first shot, they run off. If you miss an attacker who is coming after you, they may keep coming. That is why having higher capacity magazines and semi-automatic functionality is helpful.

To your other points, all I can say is this. The second amendment is designed (in part) to protect us a government that would attemt to take our freedoms by force. I don't think for a second that our current government is capable of such treachery, but the second amendment is a protection from those things we would all rather not contemplate.

Are you serious? Wow! I find it hard to believe you can walk and chew bubble gum at the same time. Do you for one minute in that small mind of yours think that any US citizen or US soldier or Police officer would take up arms against the other? I know plenty of all and I can say with certenty that your comments are some of the most ridiculous I have ever seen. Do you understand that many of those protesting in front of state houses all across this nation were POLICE OFFICERS , MILITARY PERSONNEL and FIRE FIGHTERS. Man you have a lot to learn. They are all defenders of the second amendment no matter what you may wish. 1ke ,frank FIFA steve. You fools need to get a grip. As for everyone else. No matter what these above mentioned nut jobs say just don't reply to them. Let them complain and ignore them, They thrive on all of us replying to their stupid comments. Just cut them off and move on. They will fade away like a bad fart. Shoot straight, Shoot often.

LOL...Ike is such an intelligent prognosticator about weapons issues, eh?

ROTFLMAO Only these Oaf Keepers and I don't think the Government is afraid of these Goofballs....

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2010/03/oath-keepers

A good read from a Conservative Lieutenant Colonel about these delusional "oath keepers"

http://www.redstate.com/streiff/2009/10/21/the-malignant-nature-of-the-oath-keeper-movement/

What happens when the orders given to a soldier are in clear violation of the oath to support and defend the constitution? I'm not saying this will happen, but I am asking as an academic question.

Personally, I think the oath keeper fad is nothing more than a political statement, which is activity that military officers and enlisted men should both avoid. The 10 items listed by the oath takers are aother matter.

If and when any senior officer or government official gives orders that are clearly in violation of the constitution, at that point (not before) it is the duty of an officer to not comply. Blindly following orders leads to horrors like Mai Lai.

Must an office follow every order?

Security at stadia, concerts, etc. is there simply to keep out those who haven't paid admission, eject troublemakers. and such. They are seldom armed. Politicians like the idea of armed guards in schools because the kids are likely to grow up thinking "The Man" really cares about them, when "The Man" really cares only for their votes or their campaign contributions.

They are not my team but I have been to about 10 in my life. I even went to see them play at Green Bay in 2001. I prefer the college game and go to a couple of those every year.

amark, as a season ticket holder that attends all 8 regular season games, I will let you in on a secret. No one else should read this. Prior to this year, the fans entering the stadium were subjected to a "pat down" with separate lines for males and females. The "pat down" involved patting fans around their waist. This patdown was not intended to find a firearm, but instead intended to find alcohol. If you wanted to bring in a handgun all you had to do was stuff it in your crotch.

This year they have replaced the patdowns with handheld scanners seen at airports and government buildings. I believe these scanners don't have batteries in them. I have intentionally left keys, coins, glasses and cell phones in my pockets and have never had an alarm go off. I did not see a single individual moved aside because a scanner went off. So much for stadium security, it is a sham.

I cant speak for Ravens game, but there is aan extra large presence of PG County's finest at Redskins game in addition to the hired event security that collect tickets and deal with minor problems.

Are you saying that they deserve protection because that are more at risk due to the nature of threats against them?

If that's true, we should arm everyone in NYC, Baltimore, Chicago, ..........

Good deflection Frank. The question stands.

Frank, since your attention span is short, I will explain yet again.

You and several others denounced opinions put forth that the passage of open carry and concealed carry laws had the effect of lowering crime in the areas these laws were enacted and steadfastly claimed that the decrease in crime was a natonal trend, and not attributable to the local loosening of gun control laws.

Now you claim that a lower crime rate in NYC (no stats provided) is due to the local gun control measures and NOT part of a national trend. You cant take both side of this issue depending on how it helps your opinion. A 10 year old can see through this argument.

Chris W., if I have read this correctly, I don't think anyone has claimed causation or correlation between federal or local gun laws and the homicide rate in New York City.

Why does everyone feel compelled to pick at Frank? I think he is a stickler for accuracy and consistent logic.

Ike,
"stickler for accuracy" That one did make me laugh.

You mean like posting a comment vilifying a security guard leaving a LOADED gun unattended and then posting an article that clearly states, several times, that the gun was UNLOADED?

Please.

Hey Fido - can you get it through your small brain that most citizens aren't looking to shoot police officers?

FIFA, if most police officers would act like they are equals to citizens (which is what they are in the real world) and would push for the drug trade and various other "dictate to people what they do with their own body" things to be made legal, they wouldn't have to worry about being shot in motor vehicle stops.

The bottom line is that you are painting the police as paranoid assholes who think that they are going to be shot by every single citizen they stop. That is so far from the truth that it is ridiculous.

Christopher, simple question, huh? "The bottom line is that you are painting the police as paranoid a.........". Where did I even suggest that?

I know how you could save the life of at least one child with no cost at all. Ban the use of cell phones while driving.

That would save more lives than any degree of gun control as well Evets..

How likely an armed insurrection is is a moot point. I have just as much right to defend myself from one criminal.

The right to bear arms is a personal right guaranteed under the constitution. Period. If people don't like that, or think it is out dated, there is a process to amend the constitution. That process was made intentionally daunting so that changes to the constitution must have the support of a true majority.

If the people of this country truly support changing the second amendment, it can be done. I seriously doubt it will happen in the next 50 years, but that day might come.

That about covers it.

Get a shoulder holster for the house and a carry permit so you can strap down when you go shopping and for the daily commute.

Good luck, buddy. Hey, I can barely keep track of my keys.

Much easier to change the makeup of the SCOTUS.

To use a term many liberals love to quote, the issue of the second amendment as a personal right is "settled law".

The whole point of enshrining our most basic rights in the constitution is to protect us against the natrural swings of party control. We have not reviewed the constitutionality of Roe v. Wade, not for a lack of desire by Christian conservatives, but for the fact that it is settled law.

Don't worry, This flurry of silliness will subside in a week or so...a new hot button issue will arrive..

"Don't worry, This flurry of silliness will subside in a week or so...a new hot button issue will arrive.."

Yeah your right. We had the whole Birther nonsense, then the "Obammy's School Transcripts are Sealed" nonsense. Then the "Obama's Trip to India is costing $200 Gazillion per day" nonsense, then the "Fast and Ffft" nonsense and now this whole "Obammy's Gunna Git Yur Guns" silliness. The Teabaggers are running out of steam.....

So Steve it's "nonsense" that the justice department had a program that allowed the very types of weapons you complain about here to cross the border into Mexico, and be linked to over 90 crime scenes in Mexico. I guess it is also nonsense that one of the guns was used to kill a border patrol agent.

Cue the music for the "Its all Bush's fault" retort

Frankie, what you posted does not negate the facts in any way. the truth is posted and noting you can type will refute the numbers.

"Good decent people are mocked and indecent people are idolized. "

What a truthful comment. That shows the moral fiber breakdown of our culture.

The catastrophe is on its way, Eleanor, when the flood of counterfeit, or imaginary money that the Fed has been busily creating hits the fan, and it suddenly costs a hundred bucks or a thousand for a bottle of milk or a loaf of bread. Even millionaires will go broke after a few weeks of this.

Close to 10%, Frank, according to honest accounting, not the government. Don't believe it? Dig up a supermarket circular from a year ago and compare prices with the latest issue. The only reason it isn't higher is that the banks have been holding onto most of the bucks the Fed has "printed", so they can collect income from it. But the Fed is about to push them into loaning it out to create jobs. Then we'll see what happens.

Yes sir, when it got so teachers could not give a good old-fashioned knuckle-rapping and behind-switching, society started downhill.

And that led to the Recession and the largest gap between rich and poor in the developed world.

Generally speaking, I believe you might be correct.

Someone here insisted that the economy of the late 70's "was fine".
So to talk inflation with him is an exercise in futility.

Frank, not everything rises in price at the same rate, or at the same time, but even the Congressional Budget Office has admitted that the government COLAS are essentially a joke. If steak is too expensive people will just buy hamburger! So, if hamburger becomes too expensive, I guess there is always soy protein. And if that is too expensive? Food prices generally seem to be the leading indicators.

Yes i have noticed this way to much in recent years, like we entered the twilight zone!

Holy crap, this is insanely paranoid/off the wall even for you, Joe/Sanchez. Honestly, your brain chemistry has to be off, kid. Obama is not after you. No one is after you.

jagoff, I didn't say I totally believed it did I? Seems you are more paranoid than anyone. I do connect the dots of the top brass being removed and changed. I do believe it when the law abiding Americans are being targeted by HLS and West Point think tanks.

"A West Point think tank has issued a paper warning America about “far right” groups such as the “anti-federalist” movement, which supports “civil activism, individual freedoms and self-government.”

The report issued this week by the Combating Terrorism Center at the U.S. Military Academy at West Point, N.Y., is titled “Challengers from the Sidelines: Understanding America’s Violent Far-Right.”

The center — part of the institution where men and women are molded into Army officers — posted the report Tuesday. It lumps limited government activists with three movements it identifies as “a racist/white supremacy movement, an anti-federalist movement and a fundamentalist movement.”

The West Point center typically focuses reports on al Qaeda and other Islamic extremists attempting to gain power in Asia, the Middle East and Africa through violence."

www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jan/17/west-point-center-cites-dangers-far-right-us/#ixzz2Ij86U9gD

Yes I do believe something is amiss.

Amazing

ROTFLMAO Straight out of the Moonie paper...

Obviously you agree with the dumb facebook post (who the heck cites facebook?) since you preface it saying "The push to disarm American's [sic] by this radical Obama regime has ulterior motives." If you no longer agree with it because 30 seconds have passed then you're even nuttier than I originally thought.

Amark, you really need to wake up into the real world. President Obama has compromised on NUMEROUS things, just because your conservative boys didn't get everything that they wanted does not mean that he is 'unable to compromise'.

Remember, the AHCA had a NATIONALIZED OPTION at first along with numerous other stipulations which were ixnay'd in order to get the bill to pass. Something that Americans were enraged that Obama did, they wanted that nationalized option for health insurance because they realize that it works QUITE well overseas.

Chris Kidwell wrote: Remember, the AHCA had a NATIONALIZED OPTION at first along with numerous other stipulations which were ixnay'd in order to get the bill to pass. Something that Americans were enraged that Obama did, they wanted that nationalized option for health insurance because they realize that it works QUITE well overseas.
Of course this has zero to do with the topic at hand but if you believe he is a compromiser? LOL. Compromise is bringing people of opposite viewpoints together, not the left and the extreme left deciding they can only pass a takeover of healthcare if they drop the "govt option". Goodbye.

I read the same post, it is from natural news and i would not put it past the jewish gun grabbers who want a communist style government in place in the US. The truth be told when zionists became a majority in our government, they have twisted everything that made the US so great, we fight wars in the middle east for them, give them billions of dollars a year, they allow perversions of our way of life(ethics, morals,religion ect.) and condone/support White genocide in all White nations. I could go on but anyone who knows their history, also knows what we are in for next.

That is a sad reality!

Let's see, man on the moon, 9/11 conspiracy, Kenyan Usurper Hawaiian Devil Baby, now we're gonna get your guns. I forgot, 16th amendment was not properly ratified making federal income tax illegal.

Steve:
Is your crazy old Uncle who is a nursing home a representative of the Tea Party? Of course the term "Party of the Crazy Old White People" could apply to any of today's political groups.....depending on ones opinion.

It's always in error to generalize.

Steve must be off his meds again. You generalize with your ridiculous "party of Crazy Old White People". Using your logic I guess I should label all democrats as the Young Welfare Mothers Party, but alas , I don't know what good that will do other than make me just as guilty as you.

Chris, have you looked at the demographics of the Republican/Tea Party lately?

The libs always knock republicans for not having enough minorities, then when there is a conservative minority they are branded as a token and attacked viciously (Alan West, Clarence Thomas, Mia Love, Michael Steele). The next on that list will be Marco Rubio.

I forgot Herman Cain, a man who had actually accomplished something in his life before seeking the white house.

"I forgot Herman Cain, a man who had actually accomplished something in his life before seeking the white house."

LOL Running a perfectly healthy company into the ground and losing a sexual harassment lawsuit in the process?

@amark - "Nein, Nein, Nein".

You must admit that most of the Republican presidential candidates were absolutely hilarious. Or do you believe in "Nein, Nein, Nein"!

Fifa said: You must admit that most of the Republican presidential candidates were absolutely hilarious. Or do you believe in "Nein, Nein, Nein"!
Fifa, I will say this: there hasn't been a perfect candidate in my mind ever. Now as you might imagine, I believe Reagan was the best of my lifetime, although I was never old enough to vote for him. Even though the Dems have given us a non stop supply of hard left candidates, at least they generally had candidates who had crossed the threshold of being qualified for the office. That is until 2008 when someone 95% of the public had never heard of a couple years earlier showed up. The least qualified person to ever hold the office and you can't deny that whatever your ideology. Boy this is off topic.

President Obama is ranked two places higher than Reagan and still climbing.

http://www.siena.edu/uploadedfiles/home/parents_and_community/community_page/sri/independent_research/Presidents%202010%20Rank%20by%20Category.pdf

amark, you seem like a reasonable Republican. Between Bachmann, Caine, Perry, Gingrich, and Santorum, that is some of the best the Republicans could do, wow?

I was in my 30s while Reagan was President. I will be the first to admit (duck the arrows) I had many misgivings about him. Especially his last four years, I'm not sure if we was all "there". Turned out he wasn't.

Regarding "our" President elected in 2008, you were in the minority by a substantial margin, but the Republican candidate had a temper issue and I didn't care for his marriage morals or lack thereof. I could have voted for McCain in 2000, not 2008. Regarding the Republican VP candidate of 2008, I was scared to death about a person like her being so close to the Presidency and McCain willing to do anything to win, thus an easy choice.

Frank,
So you will judge all Republicans by who shows up at a pro gun rally is that it?

Should I then judge all Democrats the people that appear at an occupy protest?

I'll give you a fighting chance. Before you answer, click here: http://technorati.com/politics/article/occupy-wall-street-protesters-clarify-goalssort/

LOL, Steve you expect me to give any relevance to a survey of a bunch of academia? These presidential rankings always have liberals at or near the top- FDR, TR, Wilson, are you kidding me. Here's my survey, I have the current president #42, just above Andrew Johnson and just below Carter. But to stay on topic, if God forbid, Owe'malley ever makes it to the white house, Obama will move up one spot. Goodbye.

amark, this one is your fault. Now I promise to not laugh out loud.

But, pray tell us where you have GWB?

If you only watch Fox, you wouldn't know that over 95% of scientists believe in global climate change, but what the heck do they know? Heck with educated people.

Frank, she is confused by smart people it appears.

Sure, "Stank". Seems like you're always "just talking" to someone down there in Mom's basement. Having your Walter Mitty adventures again, huh? LMAO

FIFA, I would have GW Bush higher than the leftists who compiled this survey, but not in the top half. He was a big spending "conservative" which I greatly disapproved of. I just looked at this list again. Obama is 10th on ability to compromise, are you kidding me? Compromise means you are able to work with both sides and it's a two way street, not "my way or the highway".

amark, I am shocked! Let's see, you have GWB ahead of Obama after two unfunded wars and wrecking the economy. You have set a very high bar for Obama to be able to beat.

Regarding compromise, I call it caving in. Not compromising means getting exactly what you want. Outside of health care he has caved in (compromised) repeatedly.

Jeff, I disagree. I have not seen the aforementioned beliefs "believed" by "all" as you state. Usually the same type of group that is easily influenced. These people cannot be persuaded by logic or reason. With today's availability of the internet it also is only going to get worse.

I intentionally left religion out of the discussion for the "fear" of a lightning strike. You could add global climate change as a more insidious version of crazy thinking. This type of crazy is the direct result of propaganda and political contributions paid for by the very industry that needs regulation.

I don't fall into traps Jeff unless very cleverly set. I don't' know where you are headed with this, but have a good day.

Jeff - are you reading the context of the discussion? Stay on point please. It does not appear so. Please do. You don't sound ignorant.

What's a trait, Jeff? Skin color, gender, religious affiliation, noational origin, sexual orientation?

I may under many circumstances speak harshly of beliefs, character, political aims, choice of associates, ideologies, etc.

It is not slander nor libel.

Jeff, the Patch seems to just misplace posts.

Steve's discussion was about Republicans being the "Party of Crazy Old White People".

Have a good day.

"I am a child molester? says Frank.

Racist is a code word for anti-White, when you point the finger and name call it says a lot about you. Maybe you want something for nothing? Maybe you want to help destroy White nations, in my opinion if the invaders don't like White intolerance then they have a place they can go, where they don't have to worry about intolerance and that is back where they come from. When a guess comes to stay at your house, how long will tolerate his invasion for? a week a month, a year how long until your guest becomes un-welcomed, maybe when your guest tries to make your home the way his home is? This is a good way to judge tolerance

Don't they have one at Perry Hall Senior High? How'd that work out for them during that shooting?

Yea right, Chris. Dream on.

I think she more than paid for her crime Frank. Her and the rest of her family.

May I ask what crime Ms. Lanza committed?

Sorry Evets,

Franks twisted logic can be confusing. You see in his mind, Nancy Lanza is just as guilty as her kid. I should have said, her lapse in judgement.

Can anyone find anywhere whether or not those firearms of Ms Lanza were locked up or not? Did he kill her to get them from locked storage?

Do not know the answer to that, but she was not required by state law to have had them locked up.

"•No person shall keep or store any loaded firearm on any premises under his control if he knows or reasonably should know that a person under 16 is likely to gain access without a parent’s or guardian’s permission, unless it is in a location which a reasonable person would believe to be secured, is carried on the person or within close proximity, or is in a locked container."

Whether he intended it or not, Adam Lanza was merciful when he killed his mother before murdering all those educators and kids. She doesn't have to live with the knowledge of what he did, and the guilt she would nave had to feel.

Those that believe in the Big Guy in the Sky would disagree with you, she knows.

Jeff, I think the "token" moniker largely stems from the fact you see the very few minorities who identify as Republican trotted out by the party in an attempt to disprove the (earned) image of the party catering almost exclusively to older, white, and predominantly male audiences. That's what's "lame" about it.

Jeff, you play the psychoanalyst game very well. Instead of stating your opinions about any issue, you hide behind the curtain. Why? What are your opinions? Please share them with us, otherwise go home, be quiet, it is bedtime.

LOL...Fido the yipping and nipping poodle once again flaunting those subatomic particles he calls gonads. Why don't you "go home" Fido, before you get dragged through the dirt in humiliation again? ROTFLMAO

Hmmph, hmmph? What is that odor?

Oh, that again? Gosh, that smells.

Indeed, Fido. You're smelling that fetid and brutalized arse of yours. LMAO

I'd be satisfied with schools.

What's your solution? Make new laws and hope criminals decide to obide by them?

How does one protect themselves against a criminal with a gun? If you want to lay down and die in the face of a criminal with a gun, that's your choice and your right. That certainly is not my choice. I'm sure when you need help, the police will be there in seconds....

Jon, you'd be satisfied with schools only until the shooting moved to the other areas mentioned above.

As I have said many times before, almost all gun murders involve semi-automatic weapons. I would make the ownership of a semi-automatic weapon illegal. Bolt action rifles or revolvers only. Possession of a semi-automatic weapon would come with a severe penalty. Australia bought back guns and spent money doing it.

I also recognize, that won't happen. So you can try your new fangled security measure and before too long it will just move from a gun at a school to a new place. Crazy people don't care what they do. So you have to either catch them all (Minority Report) comes to mind, or you have to melt the weapons. Neither is going to happen. The media wait for the next as we do.

How many people do you personally know Jon that "saved" themselves with a gun from a criminal?

I could call you all of the names in the book as you attempt to do the same. If the possession of a semi-automatic handgun carried with it a stiff penalty they would go away. It has happened elsewhere in the world. You small mindedness and love of guns proves so.

I asked you a very simple question, how many people do you know personally that saved themselves with a gun. You did not answer. I presume it is none. We will have guns and these murders will continue, that is our legacy, Jon. And when it comes to wits, I am anything but unarmed, sir.

Your talking points make you look like a parrot, I assume NRA = Jon.

Jon Doe, do you want the gov't to go even more in debt, buying back almost every gun in the country? Simply outlawing semi-automatic weapons would effectively be a violation of the 4th amendment without a buyback program. Even Australia didn't go that far, even without a Bill of Rights.

Chuck, complain to me, as Jon Doe does not support my proposal. It would be a more interesting argument that the banning of all semi-automatic weapons in the US does not violate the 2nd (you said 4th), as all Americans can still "bear" arms, just only those that are legal to be manufactured. The SCOTUS has agreed we can ban dangerous weapons, it is just the definition of what is dangerous. Thus not all weapons can be owned by citizens.

Banning property that has previously been allowed would seem effectively be a "seizure" - 4th amendment.

Chuck, that would be your argument, but I don't know if you win. But, I would guarantee eliminating semi-automatic weapons would reduce murder, that is for certain.

Fifa, have you ever noticed how many people are stabbed or beaten to death? Not as many as are shot, but if guns weren't available, other means always are. True, mass killings might be fewer - unless bombs became more popular. There is always a way to a goal, if someone is crazy enough.

By the way Fifa, if s/a weapons were outlawed, people woould have a certain period to turn them in to... who? The government, of course. Tell me that wouldn't be a seizure of property, unless compensation was given.

Yes Chuck, about 70% of all murders are by gun. The other 30% are accounted for by knife, club, arson, car, etc. That does not consider most suicides are by gun as well. Just facts.

As someone who has owned and fired weapons, the difference between a revolver in your home and a semi-automatic handgun I would say is negligible. Most non-gun owners do not realize that the semi-automatic does not have a round ready to fire. In your home, one shot is probably as much as may occur. Thus no need for the semi. Let alone if your weapon has a trigger lock or stored in a safe. Criminal breaks in and you start looking for a key? I have trouble finding my car keys!

Regarding semi-automatics Chuck, I am a pragmatist. The semi's sole purpose is to fire a lot of rounds easily after loading one in the chamber, making it easy to fire/kill. Who needs to do that? A 15 year sentence for possession of a semi I think would be a big deterrent.

Of course that is a pipe dream. No different than any corporation wishing to protect their turf. Whether it be cigarettes, fossil fuels, unions, etc. It doesn't matter, big business will control the speech. Thus, I have consistently said, I am waiting for the next mass murder coming to an area near you in the future. It will happen, guaranteed.

Fido: Most non-gun owners do not realize that the semi-automatic does not have a round ready to fire.

LMAO...I thought you were a war hero, Fido. Why don't you know the semis can in fact have a round chambered?

This is true enough in most cases, but try to get big-pharma or the medical establishment to admit it - HAH! Can't hurt their bottom lines!

Not so fast there, Shawn. Criminals are not complete cowards, they are usually no braver and no more cowardly than other people are.

Sure, we call drug assassins 'cowardly' because they do not meet their victims face to face, but we could call the military that as well who are dropping bombs on foreign soldiers from 20K feet in the air.

They aren't really cowardly, they are just intelligent (again contrary to popular belief) and realize that an ambush attack is the best attack, less chance of someone fighting back that way.

You are missing the point Christopher. Cowardly or not, a criminal will always choose an easy target. Especially choosing a target where there is 0% chance of being shot (a shcool) over a target where they will be confronted by an armed guard or citizen and could be shot and or killed.

And what you miss Shawn is that there will always be an easy target. Unless you want everyone carrying a gun? The 'Ole Wild Wild West again, shoot 'em up boys.

Guess again, Shawn. If that was true, then we wouldn't have things called bank robberies. Criminals are NOT cowardly most times, they are desperate for cash and turn to crime because they have tried making money 'honestly' and either cannot make enough to survive or cannot make enough to live the lives that they wish to live.

If it sounds like I support criminals, think again.... I don't, but I am intelligent enough to see things from their point of view and to realize that for a lot of people today, our system sucks.

Sure Christopher. We know that schools are just loaded with cash, right? LMAO

Yes, why would anyone want armed citizens that would actually stop the crimes before they happen. Silly me what was I thinking?
FIFA your utter lack of intellect is uncanny, I do so enjoy your delusional musing. Thanks for the cheap entertainment!

Hey, it's your story Christopher, tell it however you want it.

Illegitimacy? Isn't everyone considered a child of God? Illegitimacy is a creation of mankind. As is marriage.

Nail, meet head, Chuck. Illegitimacy, marriage, etc. are all creations of mankind.

There is also no such thing as 'god', it's a made-up strawman in order to terrify people into adhering to the personal morality of some idiot who wrote his personal morality down centuries ago.

Basically agree, Christopher; I was just respecting the mythology most people prefer to believe in - their choice. it would be great if people would simply behave toward each other is they would like to be treated (the only true moral precept). Unfortunately, some think that implies weakness; then one must be to some degree the toughest SOB on the block or be subservient. Illegitimate? I am certainly as Illegitimate as you, or as the child born of teen siblings who experimented beyond the accepted norm - to use an extreme example.