When I wrote my blog on October 12, 2011 I raised the question of whether there should be more county oversight of the Harford County Humane Society. This was prompted by some personal experiences I had with shelter staff involving two dogs that had gone through the shelter. With the county just approving the funds to build a new shelter building for the private organization, on privately owned land, it seemed like a good time to raise any questions or concerns. The blog drew a number of responses, some who had worked or volunteered for the shelter in the past who had complaints about the shelter operations and accountability, some who had a negative personal experience with the shelter, some who completely supported the work of the shelter, some suggesting the shelter become a “no kill” shelter, some suggesting the shelter adopt a TNR (Trap Neuter Release) program for feral cats, others opposed to TNR who feared for songbirds, some trolls, and, surprisingly, a response blog from David Fang, President of the Harford County Humane Society. Mr. Fang extended an open invitation for anyone who had concerns to come to the shelter to discuss them.
I accepted that invitation and on Tuesday, Oct. 26 I met with both Mr. Fang and Executive Director Mary Leavens for three hours. Prior to that meeting I attempted to gather as much information as possible drawing on various sources including previous and current employees and volunteers, rescue groups that work with the shelter, the H.O.P.E group, TNR, public records, and other concerns that had been raised by those posting responses to the blog(s). I welcomed the input from Peter Masloch, who turned an Allegheny county municipal open admission animal shelter from a high kill shelter (90% kill rate) in to a No Kill Shelter. I even spoke with someone local who had previously managed a shelter, other than HCHS, to get their input about problems and obstacles faced by an open admission shelter. I scoured Google for any news on the shelter and found dismal reports from 2007/08 about the health concerns at the shelter, followed by a number of news articles that were also critical of the shelter. The H.O.P.E Facebook page had asked a number of the same questions I had, as well as supplied a set of plans for the new shelter building obtained from the county through the Freedom of Information Act. Erika Ponsiek, founder of H.O.P.E, recently spoke at the county council meeting. In talking to all of these people, the same goal was evident, save as many lives of animals in shelters as possible. So how can people who all want the same thing be so divided?
I arrived at the shelter for my meeting with Mr. Fang and Ms. Leavens expecting to be patronized, only given answers to certain questions and being shuffled off after a half hour, but I was totally wrong. Everything was on the table. There wasn’t a question that was off limits. There wasn’t a subject about the past, present or future that they were not willing, and anxious, to discuss. It was an open exchange of information and ideas. Here are just some of the things I learned during my meeting:
1) After clarification on criteria used to euthanize animals, I have adjusted my original calculations as they were incorrect. These figures are based on the 2010 figures supplied by the shelter.
- Dogs- approximately 71% of all dogs that entered the shelter leave alive. Of these dogs, about 40% are reunited with their owners. Of the remaining 60% most were adopted with less than 1% transferred to rescue groups.
- So what about the approximately 29% that are euthanized?
- 10.4% are euthanized at the request of the owners. The vast majority of these dogs are elderly being brought in because they have major health problems that have extinguished their quality of life. The cost of euthanasia at the shelter is less expensive than at most vet offices and is often the reason people choose the shelter. According to Mr. Fang and Ms. Leavens it is very rare a healthy animal is brought in by its owners for euthanasia and every effort is made to convince them to put the animal up for adoption. Since these animals are not destroyed due to space, staff determined medical or temperament, removing them from the figures increases the number of dogs that leave the shelter alive to 80%.
- Temperament problems are the biggest reason animals are euthanized at 12.2%, but what does that mean? Although no professional behaviorist is on staff, animals that continually bite or show continued aggression are not good candidates for adoption. Some animals are aggressive out of fear, or to guard food and efforts are made to place these animals with rescue groups that might have resources to be able to address their behaviors. County regulations require all dog bites to be reported. If a dog in the shelter bites multiple times it can be viewed as vicious by county regulations and the shelter cannot take responsibility for adopting that dog out to the public. Perhaps if there were an organization that works specifically with such animals , some of those dogs might have happy endings, but as of now no such organization exists.
- Medical reasons make up 2.9% of the animals being euthanized. The shelter receives animals brought in from animal control and the public. Some animals are injured so badly or have such severe medical conditions there is no choice but to euthanize. There is no veterinarian on staff so emergency situations are taken to local ER facilities. Non life threatening medical issues are seen by a vet who comes in several times per week.
- Less than one half percent of dogs were euthanized during 2010 due to lack of adopters/space in the kennel during abnormally busy times.
- So what about the approximately 29% that are euthanized?
- Cats- only 31% of the cats that entered the shelter left alive.
- Why such a low number compared to dogs?
- Sadly, only 1.3% are returned to owners. Cats are less likely to have identification or be reclaimed by owners.
- 29.7% were adopted and close to 1% went to rescue. While dogs have a multitude of rescue groups, there are not that many cat rescue groups. Thus 7.7% of the healthy adoptable cats that enter the shelter are euthanized due to lack of adopters and space at abnormally busy times.
- 3.2% are euthanized at owner’s request and much like the dogs, the vast majority of those cats have major health problems that have extinguished their quality of life
- 23.1% were euthanized for medical reasons. As with dogs, there is no veterinarian on staff so emergency situations are taken to local ER facilities. Non life threatening medical issues are seen by a vet who comes in several times per week.
- 11.6% are euthanized for temperament problems, problems that are so severe the animals are unable to be handled or show continued aggression. There are just not rescue groups that might have resources to be able to address their behaviors. There are not even enough rescues to take the healthy, loving cats.
- 17.5% fall into the category called “feral”, or wild cats, with no chance of adoption, and are euthanized. 507 cats fell into that category. While TNR “might” be an option at some point in time, the resources are just not available for the shelter to institute such a program now.
- There is no veterinarian on staff to perform spay/neuter. Most ferals are brought in from areas where they are not wanted through calls to animal rescue, or by citizens that have trapped them, and returning them to the same area would not be acceptable. Currently there is no organization that takes feral cats that has the resources to offer spay/neuter services or to relocate them to areas where a caretaker is available. County regulations currently prohibit the transfer of feral cats from the shelter to individuals that might want to take on the responsibility for their relocation and care.The TNR program has worked well in some areas and not so well in other areas. The key is having that support system for the colonies to house and care for them. For TNR to be considered in Harford County it would require changes to regulations allowing the shelter to turn over those cats to others, as well as the organizations willing to take on that responsibility, and finally for the public to be educated on how and why it works. Unfortunately unless those things change, feral cats being euthanized will continue to be a problem, as the cats left behind continue to breed and replenish the colonies.
- Unlike private no kill shelters, the shelter is required by the county to take these feral cats through their agreement to be an open admission shelter.
- Even if you factor the feral cats out of the equation, the percentage of cats that leave the shelter alive is still only 38%. Cat lovers should take note of these figures. These animals are dying because they are not taken care of responsibly by their owners- allowing them to roam, breed and fall victim to the elements, traffic, and others who might harm them. Irresponsible owners and a growing population of feral cats really make the number of cats entering the shelter overwhelming to house and there are not many rescues or programs in place to lessen these problems.
- Why such a low number compared to dogs?
Could these numbers improve? Absolutely! The addition of a professional behavior expert might save some of the animals euthanized due to temperament. The addition of a veterinarian on staff might save some animals currently euthanized due to medical reasons by recognizing treatable illnesses sooner. Both Mr. Fang and Ms. Leave have already planned for those additions as soon as funding allows.
Much has been said about the experience of the President, David Fang, and Executive Director, Mary Leavens, not including any animal care experience or training and but “only” a business background, There has also been criticism of everyday business terms such as “inventory” being used to describe the number of animals currently in residence at the shelter. While I admit I cringed when I heard the animals being called “inventory”, and I suggested not using terms that sound like objects instead of living, breathing animals, I found that both Mr. Fang and Ms. Leavens are committed to changing many of the things that kept HCHS from operating efficiently and making the best use of resources. While they may not have had the experience going into the positions, they actively seek input from professionals both within the organization and outside of the organization. They want the changes they make to not only be positive for the animals but that can lay a foundation for future growth of programs the shelter can provide.
For example, the shelter implemented a program called “PetPoint Animal Management Systems” prior to when Ms. Leavens became Executive Director. Unfortunately, the software is only as good as the data that is input, or in computer terms- GIGO – garbage in, garbage out. Because these records were not maintained well in the past, the data and statistics were nowhere near accurate, at one point showing over 2800 animals in residence, a physical impossibility for the space they have. The software allows for a more itemized accounting of an animal’s stay at the shelter. When used at its full potential, the software will allow for reporting that will be beneficial for future planning, for supporting documentation for grant requests, for donor requests, public informational requests and to justify the need for additional funds to hire additional, experienced staff to implement new programs, or other expenditures that arise. The software also has many other built in features that ultimately benefit the animals. To get back on track and serve the animals that are currently in the shelter’s care, it was necessary to start over in using this software. The shelter runs on a July 1 through June 30 fiscal year, much like county government. While there are plans to release 2011 statistics, as a private organization there is no legal requirement for them to release them to the public, although they can be beneficial to show the public the changes in management, programs and care that have been implemented are making a difference. I encouraged them to share their success stories with the public at large and not just in private meetings such as the one I was part of.
Based on the 990 form, salaries/benefits of HCHS staff account for 64% of the budget. While that at first seems staggering, after doing research on a number of other local non-profits that receive a majority of government funding, the average salaries per employee are directly in line with those organizations that I used in my research. Obviously more experienced personnel are paid a bit more and less experienced are a bit less, but using an average all are less than $28,000 a year. Policies and procedures have been implemented at the shelter for all personnel and volunteers. While they were met initially met with resistance, it’s been my experience as a manager that having clearly defined responsibilities actually makes an organization run more efficiently and keeps everybody on the same page. Volunteers are an integral part of any non-profit but much like the shelter management program, the database has near 1500 people in it, but only less than 150 active volunteers that give varying amounts of time and abilities to the shelter. Similar problems exist with the current list of rescue organizations the shelter draws from, as some are outdated and others need to be added and new relationships formed. It all takes time. While it’s easy to take one component and say how easy it is to fix, when there are so many components that need to be fixed, it can’t all be done at once and still care for the animals , the people who visit the shelter and to develop relationships with groups that can support your goals.
So what about accountability to the public and the taxpayers? There is no formal contract between the county and the shelter. They operate under what is called a MOU (Memorandum of Understanding) that outlines what services the shelter will provide. MOU’s are standard in non-profits where organizations work together to achieve a common goal. Each year the shelter meets with the county to discuss financial needs of the shelter to provide the services for the county. 78% of the animals being brought into the shelter are considered “strays”, which is what the funding from the county covers and currently the county provides about 50% of the shelter’s revenue. Although I have not personally seen the MOU, my understanding is the county allows the shelter to decide how they operate but the shelter does appear before the county yearly with a proposed budget and report on operations. The county has certain authority in the event of gross mismanagement and either side could end the MOU at any time.
This brings me to the construction of the new shelter being funded by the county. The county has determined that under the management of Mr. Fang and Ms. Leavens the shelter operation is continually improving the operation and is in dire need of a new facility and proper tools for staff to do their jobs and serve the animals to the best of their ability. The plans obtained through the county by the H.O.P.E. group are preliminary and subject to change. An official RFP was put out by the county with the stipulation that the architect had to work with Shelter Planners of America on the design of the shelter. The desire was not to have a pretty building that wasn’t functional, but a building that would serve the animals the best, plan for future needs and programs, as well as be the kind of place the public would want to visit to adopt a pet, to attend training classes, to attend events and much more. The design takes into consideration that the shelter property is not serviced by a public sewage system, but a septic system, and while solid waste is disposed of, the liquid waste is capped to keep the seepage of nitrogen into the surrounding land within control. The 75 person conference room is actually planned to be a multi-purpose room for training classes, presentations, events, meetings and more. There will no doubt be zoning hearings in the future for public input.
I went to the meeting at the shelter not knowing what to expect, and I met people with a vision and a plan. Are they doing everything they want to do? No. Any business person will tell you that change takes time and if you don’t build on a solid foundation, taking one step at a time, you risk failure instead of success. As much as we would all like to see changes implemented immediately, it’s impossible to do everything they, and we, want to see immediately without the resources in money and personnel, and that takes public support to support the shelter as they take the steps to continually improve the operations and care of the animals. In spite of the obstacles they are already working on plans for new programs to be implemented long before the new shelter even breaks ground.
This experience has been very educational for me in many ways.
I have met some very passionate people from the H.O.P.E group and while the group was originally founded because of a bad experience with the shelter, I found many are very nice people who are only motivated by their love of animals and wanting to decrease the kill rates at the shelter. I learned that they are not an actual non-profit organization, but a group who want to see the shelter move forward and emulate and adopt programs of the successful no kill shelters. I think that is very admirable and I definitely agree. Achieving a 90% rate of animals leaving the shelter alive is very doable for dogs with the addition of additional resources of a behaviorist and veterinarian as soon as funding is available. I’m not so sure it’s realistic for cats given what the shelter has to work with today involving feral cats since the numbers are overwhelming and one veterinarian added to the staff would not be enough to serve the needs of the domestic animals in the shelter as well as feral cats. A low cost spay/neuter to the public would help stop breeding of roaming domestic cats, but also require additional resources in personnel and funding. While it seems the answer is to bring in more people to do the job, the reality is there is a limited amount of money to work with and 50% of the shelter’s budget is not paid for by the county and needs to be raised to continue operating. In today’s economy grant funds are down and donations are down, so as easy as it sounds, practically it’s not that easy. Many of the answers H.O.P.E. seeks are available by visiting the shelter and talking with Mr. Fang and Ms. Leavens but past interactions between them have left both sides defensive. Some of the demands of H.O.P.E. posted on their Facebook page go beyond what is legally required of a private organization and I’m not sure the personal attacks on Mr. Fang and Ms. Leavens are motivated by what is best for the animals, as it has only created more animosity and division between them. This is truly unfortunate since both groups are really working towards the same goal. In a perfect world with plenty of money and resources these ideas could be implemented immediately. In the world of reality it’s often not the case.
I never knew about TNR Programs before my blog other than the colony at Atlantic City. I’ve found out how they work and how they can be very effective. I think they could work in Harford County to cut down on the number of feral cats being killed in the shelter, and decrease the population, but a basic component of the plan, surgery to neuter is not possible today because there are no veterinarians on staff. None of the domestic animals that come to the shelter today have access to spay/neuter. People who adopt pets from the shelter are provided a voucher to take to a local vet to have the surgery performed. A deposit is taken at that time but returned when proof of surgery is returned to the shelter. So who is supposed to do the surgery? According to Mr. Fang, the second component, release by the shelter is not allowed under current county regulations, either on public land or to individuals that might want to take them. Those who are interested in being caretakers would have to work directly with those who want the cats removed to be able to gain custody of them. While many support TNR, (and if done correctly I would be among them) the network to support it is just not established at this point. Public support is not there yet either. I would venture that most of the public has not heard of it. In 2010 alone, 507 cats were euthanized as feral. For those that support TNR, those energies might be better spent creating that formal network, establishing or working with a non-profit for TNR, finding the funding, educating the public and then presenting a plan to the county as an alternative to current regulations.
The question I originally raised of why more information is not available to the general public about the shelter operations was discussed at length with Mr. Fang and Ms. Leavens. With the shelter’s image in recent years being littered with negativity, including complaints from the public, previous employees and volunteers, veterinarians citing health and safety issues, continued turnover of shelter management, and high kill rates, the shelter is in major need of an image makeover to highlight the progress being made under current management, as well as what it needs in volunteers and funding to implement new programs and continue to take the shelter forward. It remains largely unknown by the general public who only knows what they have seen in the news, heard through rumors or experienced through limited contact with shelter personnel. While it’s admirable that Mr. Fang and Ms. Leavens will meet with anyone through private meetings, and I truly appreciate them giving me almost an entire afternoon of their time, I believe this kind of information needs to be disbursed on a larger scale, be it through links on their website (which is currently being reviewed and revamped), press releases, use of PSA’s and media, outreach presentations to larger groups of people, publications available to the public and more effective use of Facebook and social networking.
Finally, I saw the staff at the shelter working as a team first hand. As our meeting wound down, a dog ran past the window without a leash or person handling it. Both Ms. Leavens and Mr. Fang abruptly jumped up and immediately ran from the office, followed by administrative staff. Outside already were shelter personnel who had already closed the gates to keep the dog from leaving the property and everyone involved was committed to bringing this one dog safely back to the shelter. Nobody was allowed on or off the property until the dog was safely under control. It may seem like a little thing, but if this organization really didn’t care about every animal there, they wouldn’t have known how to react quickly and effectively and this dog may have met a different fate on Connelly Road.
At the end of my research, I remain sad that for the foreseeable future I don’t see any other answer for feral cats for sheer lack of resources and county regulations that need to be changed and public support built, to implement TNR. I feel sad that so many stray cats are not cared for responsibly by their owners and develop medical and temperament problems that lead to their euthanasia. I am said that until the resources exist to bring in a behaviorist and veterinarian some of the animals currently euthanized won’t be saved. Mainly, I feel sad that everyone I spoke with on all sides of the issue wants exactly the same thing- to decrease the numbers of animals coming into the shelter and to decrease the number of animals that are euthanized, but instead of building bridges and partnerships, they continue to build walls. What a powerful team it would be if they all worked together, instead of working against each other, to combine those resources to help make this a reality.
Michelle Ingrodi
11:29 am on Thursday, October 27, 2011
Allegany, which still doesn't have an H in the spelling, didn't need feral housing or colony caretakers or whatnot set up to approve TNR. They did it because it's what the county wanted, and it's a viable way to meet the 90% save rate.
I'm sorry you fell for what was told to you, it's easy to fool an outsider who has no shelter knowledge. You show them the pretty, shiny things and you talk about hope and change, and pray they fall for it.
IF the Fang and Leavins were so "in it for the animals" could you please explain to me why they're attempting to destroy my rescue? Could you explain why they don't hold adopt-a-thons or offsite adoption events? Could you tell me why they don't reach out to rescues more often? Falling for their answers is easy, they appear kind and caring. But it boils down to this, if they wanted a 90% save rate, they could make it happen. Period. Instead, they make excuses and expect you to fall for it.
Phil Dirt
5:31 pm on Thursday, October 27, 2011
How does your rescue work? Do you pay for cats to be neutered before receiving them? If so, then it should be encouraged and supported. If not, well, then it's called 'collecting' by folks in the real world.
Nick
7:16 pm on Thursday, October 27, 2011
Actually Phil I think the correct term is hoarding.
Kimberly Kanely- Bearsch
12:22 pm on Friday, October 28, 2011
Michelle I am not sure anyone wants to "destroy" your rescue. I think if anyone is requesting the information you posted on the last blog it is only to be sure that your rescue "Charm City Animal Rescue" is run legally. If it is I would not think you have anything to worry about.
Given the threats you make about people being Libel for writing about you or your history, I think it is only natural for one to build up their defence for their day in court.
Karl Schuub
4:46 pm on Friday, October 28, 2011
Michele, in response to your comment "it's easy to fool and outsider"...wouldn't you be the outsider here? You don't live in Harford County do you?
HarfordLassie
10:56 am on Sunday, October 30, 2011
Michelle, I looked up your rescue and it appears it was just formed in 2011 but your website says 2009. Do you have any statistics on the number of animals your rescue has taken in and saved? Have you ever managed a large shelter in a professional capacity or have specialized training? I'm trying to gauge what experience level you have in shelter management/animal rescue to assess another shelter. Thanks.
HarfordLassie
12:39 pm on Thursday, October 27, 2011
Sorry you feel that way Michelle, but I didn't "fall" for anything and I won't be drawn into conflicts between individuals and the shelter management. I'm a realist. Everybody wants change to save as many animals as possible, and I do mean everybody. TNR seems to be your main focus. If "the county" wants TNR, (and I think with public education, Harford might want to pursue it) it has to be funded somehow and have a network of people willing to care for the released animals. Right now the funding isn't there for a veterinarian to even care for or do surgery on the domestic animals. Who do you suggest does that piece of TNR? Where is the money coming from for the vets or vet services? If calls are coming to animal control to take the feral cats away and they can't be returned, where are they supposed to go? Should we forget about the domestic animals that are in the shelter and put all the current resources into TNR? Should we scrap the new shelter and let animals that come in continue to be in an antiquated converted house to bring in a couple vets to do all the surgery? Where are they going to do it in that house? Where are they even going to put all the recovering cats? What about diseases? That's reality. Yes, a 90% save rate is definitely possible, but not tomorrow, or next month. If you have experience running a large county open admission shelter, put together a proposal and present it on how to get there that includes all the animals.
Peter Masloch
5:45 pm on Thursday, October 27, 2011
Starting TNR is not very difficult. Map the cat colonie's in your County, find people you can use as care taker, apply for a Grant here: http://www.maddiesfund.org/ and contact the people here: http://www.alleycat.org
You can do all that with out the Shelter but you do need the permission from City/County.
Stacy Rawlings
7:12 pm on Thursday, October 27, 2011
All very good points Joan. How would you set this all up? Who should set this all up? Where would all this take place, who would transport them once they were trapped? Who would do pre-surgical care and house them while waiting to be spayed and neutered, clean their cat boxes, cages, bowls and feed them? Who would and where would you do the surgeries on and post surgical care for the cats until they could be released? Who would release and care for all the cats once turned back out? Who pays for the food they are fed each day? Who's land would they be released on? Who would keep detailed records on each cat, then trap and provide follow up rabies shots to ensure they do not contract rabies in the years to follow? Who would render care to the sick or injured cats, as that is sure to come up and who is going to foot the bill for all of these cats TNR surgeries and meds, food, housing (feral cat huts) and vet care during all their lives and where is that money supposed to come from? Is there a wealthy group of individuals willing to step forward now and take responsibility for all of these aspects while operating within the given laws of Harford County? Just a few of so many questions that average people would ask if this was brought to their attention.
Peter Masloch
7:34 pm on Thursday, October 27, 2011
How would you set this all up? Who should set this all up?
A volunteer group
Where would all this take place, who would transport them once they were trapped?
Volunteers do the trapping and transport
Who would do pre-surgical care and house them while waiting to be spayed and neutered, clean their cat boxes, cages, bowls and feed them?
Usually there is no "pre-surgical care". You want to reduce the time for a feral cat to be locked up as much as possible.
Who would and where would you do the surgeries on and post surgical care for the cats until they could be released?
Veterinarien. The cat can be released 12 hours after surgery.
Who would release and care for all the cats once turned back out?
Volunteers
Who pays for the food they are fed each day?
Donations, Grants
Who's land would they be released on?
Usually from where they came.
Who would keep detailed records on each cat, then trap and provide follow up rabies shots to ensure they do not contract rabies in the years to follow?
Volunteers
Peter Masloch
7:34 pm on Thursday, October 27, 2011
Who would render care to the sick or injured cats, as that is sure to come up and who is going to foot the bill for all of these cats TNR surgeries and meds, food, housing (feral cat huts) and vet care during all their lives and where is that money supposed to come from?
Volunteers take care of the cats. Money comes from Donations, Fundraiser, Grants
Is there a wealthy group of individuals willing to step forward now and take responsibility for all of these aspects while operating within the given laws of Harford County?
No need for a wealthy group. Which laws? Laws can be changed.
Stacy Rawlings
7:45 pm on Thursday, October 27, 2011
Peter I'm talking about everything being as it is right now... laws are what they are....do you lobby to change the laws 1st or do you form this group of volunteers and do all this TNR 1st and then go after the County to change the laws? Which comes first? What if someone doesn't want the cats to go back where they were trapped and they happen to own that land? Do you just ignore them and do it anyway? Do your volunteers then tresspass to care for them? You didn't tell me where the process of all of this is going to take place? 12 hours times how many cats to hold pre-release? I still don't have a clear picture, just lots of promises of a huge pool of volunteers to do all of this... name the vets in Harford County that you have on board with your proposed program who are waiting for all these spay and neuters of ferals to come through their doors to do the surgeries and hold them for a give period. How many caregivers have signed up for your proposed program thus far? How many land owners are asking for their land to be used for this effort?
Peter Masloch
8:19 pm on Thursday, October 27, 2011
You have to make sure the County Code complies with what you want to do first. It wouldn't make any sense to start anything else before that.
What do you do if you want to take an animal to the Vet? You make an appointment. It is not like you spay/neuter 500 cats/day. You ask a Vet how many he can do at a certain day. I have seen a Vet neutering 60 cats in 3 hours. But that is up to the Vet. The new Animal Shelter will have a Spay & Neuter Clinic, by the way. It will solve that issue.
The people I met were always very open to helping animals. Is that different in Harford County?
Stacy Rawlings
9:14 pm on Thursday, October 27, 2011
No Peter, caring people live in Harford County too. I'd like the other questions I asked to be answered please. Names of Vets on board with your proposed program, number of land owners on board and number of volunteers committed for the lifetime of feral cat colonies to care for them, keep records, trap for vaccinations and take them to the vet when they need medical attention..... waiting.... In my own experience not many local vets are willing to see or deal with a feral cat. They are few and far between. Of the few that will see them, they will be overwhelmed by being just that (one of a few) and asked to do a lot of work for these colonies and may peter out (no pun intended). then what? Are the vets expected to do this work at a reduced rate or free? Are cat caretakers willing to pay full price to the vets who agree to spay and neuter the ferals? I know of even fewer vets in the county who are willing to do philanthropic work for free or reduced rates while putting aside full paying customers... good luck in your endeavors getting the local vets on board with this. Don't mean to be a naysayer, but these are very high expectations for our county.
Peter Masloch
9:27 pm on Thursday, October 27, 2011
The new Shelter will take care of the "Vet" question. A TNR program can not be started over night. It involves lots of planning and lots of work. You can contact Alley Cat Allies and they will send somebody to your community for presentations and they also will do a workshop in which you can participate. And you do want to participate, yes?
In my experience, most land owner are pretty open minded and don't mind 10 or 20 cats on their property (depending on the size of the property of course). Farmers often welcome these cats too.
Stacy Rawlings
9:59 pm on Thursday, October 27, 2011
No Peter, I don't wish to participate in this effort I am just curious as a citizen how this will be done community or county wide. I have my own semi feral colony of 23 cats on my own property and that is as involved as I care to be in this. To each his own. I have large property so I am able to do so without my desire to do so infringing upon my neighbors at all, so I am both willing and fortunate to do as I please and help the cats that I have here. I am skeptical of a county wide effort being successful, thus my questions. In my experience more farmers shoot and kill cats than welcome them on their property to pee and poo all over their fresh hay and around the barn. But, you may be able to convince some to let them stay if they are altered and cared for by someone other than the farmer him/herself.
HarfordLassie
10:40 pm on Thursday, October 27, 2011
Peter, you said- "The new Shelter will take care of the "Vet" question. A TNR program can not be started over night. It involves lots of planning and lots of work."
Currently there is no vet on staff. Wouldn't the vet most likely be hired to do spay/neuter on the domestic animals that come into the shelter instead of having to contract with local vets at a higher cost? Wouldn't that vet also be most likely to be examining and treating the domestic animals that come into the shelter with health problems?
Also, somewhere along the way you said there was going to be a spay/neuter clinic for what I assume is a lower cost procedure offered to the pubic to decrease unwanted breeding, but also that would raise funds for the shelter.
Do you think that same one vet can handle the number of feral cats coming in as well? Seems like that is not a realistic expectation, and nobody has touched where the money is coming from to hire a vet or multiple vets to handle the volume.
Actually, many of your recent comments actually support what I said. This can't happen overnight, and waiting for a new shelter will be a year and a half from now? As someone else said, if you can develop this network of vets, caregivers, etc outside the shelter, maybe it might be easier and quicker to get county approval to do this outside of the shelter and run it outside the shelter.
Peter Masloch
10:56 pm on Thursday, October 27, 2011
Joan, I only said what I learned from Mr. Fang. He said the new Shelter has a clinic and they will try to have a Vet on the payroll. Why should the vet not be able to do spay & neuter? In the average the shelter is getting in about 3 feral cats a day. A good Vet can neuter 50 to 60 cats in 3 hours. Spay takes a bit longer.
You should have asked Mr. Fang about the budget. You talked with him longer as I did ;-)
HarfordLassie
11:23 pm on Thursday, October 27, 2011
I wasn't aware a vet could handle that many animals in 3 hours. It's out of my area of expertise. I do know when I was involved in a very large collie rescue HSUS came on the scene with their spay/neuter van and there was a lot of concern about that many animals being done so quickly. I will leave that piece to others that have the expertise and knowledge of veterinary medicine.
But you didn't answer my other question. Why wait a year and a half for a new shelter? Why not get county permission and start up a TNR program outside the shelter using the relationships you have said are easy to build? You;d probably save 1000 lives that don't have to die by then.
Peter Masloch
11:50 pm on Thursday, October 27, 2011
It certainly would be a good idea to get a group of people together that are intersted in helping with TNR. The group also should apply for non profit status. In the mean time that group could operate under the Umbrella of another non profit organisation if necessary.
HarfordLassie
5:43 pm on Friday, October 28, 2011
I'm still on the fence about TNR. I think it's probably very doable with a dedicated group of people and public support, and it pains me that so many feral cats are killed, but unless an independent group steps up and presents an alternative to the county about ferals using their own resources and networks, I don't see how it's possible for the shelter to devote the limited resources they have now towards TNR without it having an adverse effect on the domestic animals, and the shelter budget for all the surgeries alone, plus food costs. I think the HOPE group is very dedicated to TNR and they might want to consider stepping up with a plan to the county. They have the knowledge of the program, the contacts and network and since they are definitely eager to stop the killing of feral cats, they could, as Peter said, easily set it up and run with it. Unfortunately because of past history between the two groups it's unlikely they would be taken under the umbrella of the shelter to operate as volunteers to perform this.
HarfordLassie
10:48 am on Sunday, October 30, 2011
Peter, can you please give me a link to the statistics for Allegany Animal Control, including the TNR numbers the county is responsible for? Thanks.
Nick
1:07 pm on Thursday, October 27, 2011
Michelle is a negative person and unless you agree with her 100% she's not going to be happy. Google her name and see all the negative posts and mean-spirited comments that she has made. I appreciate the time that you took to meet with the HCHS and thought your article was well written and fair. I don't get the feeling that you fell for anything and you did a nice job of writing an objective article detailing the problems that the shelter faces. Than you for taking the time to both meet with the shelter and write this lengthy article detailing your findings. I definitely feel that I have a much clearer picture of the shelter and it's management.
Kimberly Kanely- Bearsch
4:57 pm on Thursday, October 27, 2011
Could not agree more Nick!
Nessy
2:24 pm on Thursday, October 27, 2011
Joan, Thank you for your follow up.
The numbers for the cats seem to be off by about 5%. I came up with: 32% success stories (1.3% returned/ 29.7% adopted/ 1% rescue) and 63.1 not making it out alive (7.7% over crowding, 3.2% owner request, 23.1% medical, 11.6% temperment, 17.5% feral).
I like the idea of providing training classes on site. I think it would help to prevent some returns / surrenders if the owners knew how to handle behavior problems.
It seems the shelter should look into either updating or adding to its septic system or connecting to the public system if possible.
HarfordLassie
5:53 pm on Friday, October 28, 2011
Thanks for the correction on the cat numbers. I really don't think the owner euthanasia should really count in the equation since it's not any different than someone going to a vet to release an old treasured friend, so I subtracted them from the overall number and did my calculations without them.
As for the septic system, I'm pretty sure that would add considerable expense to the construction. Maybe a wish list item for expansion once the shelter is up and running and donations are up?
Kimberly Kanely- Bearsch
4:56 pm on Thursday, October 27, 2011
Good job Joan. Once you ask the questions and get the facts you realize that some people will not be happy unless certain people are removed from their positions at the shelter.
All of the negativity has done nothing to help the shelter animals.
I agree everyone wants what is best for the animals and I believe the shelter is working towards that.
I am going to continue to support the shelter and I can not tell you how much I am looking forward to the new shelter. The current shelter is in such need of a face lift!
More people should ask for the facts.
Stacy Rawlings
5:42 pm on Thursday, October 27, 2011
Very well thought out and written Joan, I'm in agreement with you. Thank you for taking the time to do your research and homework, for listening politely to what all sides have said and coming to your own educated conclusion. Yeah for keeping it real!!!
Karl Schuub
5:57 pm on Thursday, October 27, 2011
Thanks for following up - it sort of confirms my impressions of the shelter; certainly not the house of horrors depicted by some. TNR is my only argument in this - and the fact that pretty much anybody can start a cat colony (see Peter's comments above) by contacting this organization is exactly the reason we shouldn't have them. Thank goodness someone in government had the foresight to have laws on the books about catching and releasing wild animals.
Peter Masloch
6:15 pm on Thursday, October 27, 2011
What do you mean with "start a cat colony"? The cat colonie's are already there for what? 50 years? 100years? 200 years? There is nothing to start.
By the way, County policies are never written in stone. They can be changed. It's not that difficult.
Stacy Rawlings
7:56 pm on Thursday, October 27, 2011
Peter Masloch Wrote:
You can do all that with out the Shelter but you do need the permission from City/County."
So if you are advocating this practice within our county and have all the particulars in order ready to execute, why are you attacking the shelter if it can all be done without them? They are not the root of this problem, they are the end of the line for the cats, because they are contracted to take all animals removed from the community through nuisance complaints. If their involvement is not necessary to execute such a plan, why not just run with this on your own folks? Then when they have their new facilities up and running, approach them to join your efforts. By then you will have convinced and shown by example the entire county's population that your plan is the answer and the Shelter will willingly partner with you, right?
Peter Masloch
8:24 pm on Thursday, October 27, 2011
Where did I "attack" the Shelter? I even talked with Mr. Fang about TNR efforts outside of the Shelter. I guess you didn't follow the previous dicussions.....
Christine
8:21 pm on Thursday, October 27, 2011
Great job Joan.
Stacy Rawlings
8:43 pm on Thursday, October 27, 2011
Well I guess I sort you all out as the same bunch ... apologies if I was wrong.
Danielle
8:53 pm on Thursday, October 27, 2011
Joan, your research and article are great. I think that your article will help answer many questions that people may have. It is very unfortunate that the reason many of these animals are in the shelter is due to irresponsible owners. My issue is with the people that think to euthanize a dog is cruel. Yes I feel that all dogs should be given the chance to be rehabilitated and even if a behaviorist was added to the staff at the shelter there will still be the dogs that just can't be changed. My question is, is it fair to keep a unstable minded dog in the shelter just to support a no-kill shelter theory? To me that is cruelty. These animals are mentally unstable and are unwilling to trust. Why should they live the rest of their life behind a chain link fence confused and scared because they don't know how to be a normal dog and can't be adopted out. I feel that for these problem dogs the best life that we can give them is a life where they can be who they are and no one is there to judge them. A life over the rainbow bridge. Maybe to some my comment may sound cruel and may sound like I do not care about animals but it is actually the complete opposite. I care deeply for these animals and my heart goes out to them. I feel sad that they had owners that treated them like this and made them like this. I think that instead of bashing the shelter for the good work that they are trying to do we should concentrate on the reason these dogs have to be euthanized- the public
Peter Masloch
9:15 pm on Thursday, October 27, 2011
Would you mind explaining the term "unstable minded dog"? And what do you mean with "no kill shelter theory"?
There are many rescue groups specialized of all kinds of dogs. Even the surviving fighting dogs from Michael Vick didn't have to be euthanized. "Little Red", as example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiVboulBkqQ
What is a no kill shelter?
A no-kill shelter is an animal shelter where animals are only euthanized if they are too sick to be treated or too aggressive to be suitable for adoption. No-kill shelters reject euthanasia as a means of population control.
Danielle
10:00 pm on Thursday, October 27, 2011
Peter if that is the case then tell H.O.P.E. that. They need to stop bashing the shelter for all that they are trying to do.
Peter Masloch
10:24 pm on Thursday, October 27, 2011
To be honest, Danielle, I don't think it is my role or position to tell people what they can or can not say. I'm an advocate, I advocate for a cause. The cause is to stop the killing in Animal Shelters. I advocate and educate to build a no kill community based on the no kill equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/
Here is a list of open admission Animal Shelter that have no kill status:
Austin, TX
Benzie County, MI
Berkeley, CA
Boulder, CO
Brown County, IN
Charlottesville, VA
Chippewa County, MI
Copper Country, MI
Duluth, MN
Fluvanna County, VA
Grosse Ile, MI
Hastings, MN
Kansas City, KS
King George County, VA
Lynchburg, VA
Marquette, MI
Otsego County, MI
Reno, NV
Seagoville, TX
Shelby County, KY
Terre Haute, IN
Tompkins County, NY
Williamsburg, VA
Williamson County, TX
gus divine
8:16 am on Friday, October 28, 2011
how many times does Joan say and use the word "I" tells a story!
Phil Dirt
9:55 am on Friday, October 28, 2011
I'm with Gus on this one. I much prefer writers to use that creepy 'refer to yourself in the third person' technique.
HarfordLassie
11:28 am on Friday, October 28, 2011
Well guys, at the risk of using the word "I", I suggest you read someone else's blogs.
Phil Dirt
12:15 pm on Friday, October 28, 2011
Sorry, Joan. I forgot to add the <sarcasm> tag to my response to gus' pointless comment. I chose to ignore the fact that his "sentence" doesn't even make sense, as it changes from a question to a statement halfway through.
Kimberly Kanely- Bearsch
12:25 pm on Friday, October 28, 2011
I think it was her experience and her blog!
Stacy Rawlings
9:17 am on Friday, October 28, 2011
Seriuosly? How can she recount her experience without referring to herself? Give me a break.....
GMan
9:29 am on Friday, October 28, 2011
Joan, you should be applauded for your passion, dedication and tireless work on this issue. You obviously care as much as all of us for the welfare of animals both domestic and wild. Thank you for your time, and the excellent and informative article written for the benefit of all Harford County residents. It is unfortunate that a few trolls feel the need to make completely irrelevant comments such a whether or not there is an H in Allegany or how many times you use the word "I". Sounds like Gus is Michelle's puppet.
Regarding Peter, since you are so expert and have the unlimited resources in TNR, I recommend a wonderful solution for you to consider. Why don't you make arrangements with Mr. Fang to come here to Harford County several times a year to transport an estimated 500+ feral cats per year to Allegany County. We already have them trapped, and all you need to do is neuter and release them in your neck of the woods.
Peter Masloch
10:00 am on Friday, October 28, 2011
Dear Gman, what an inspirational pseudonym by the way, you guys really need to make up your mind about what you want. On one side I'm being constantly told to shut up and go away and now you want me to take care of your cats? So, which one is it?
All I do is show you how other communities have successfully lowered their numbers of community cats.
From here, you have two options. You can continue what you are doing right now, killing the cats, or you can try something different. The choice is yours (and I don't mean you personally). But the question remains, why do you want to continue doing something that didn't work for the last 20 or so years? In the last 20 years your County killed about 36,000 cats. If that would be a good solution the cats would be gone by now, don't you think?
HarfordLassie
11:34 am on Friday, October 28, 2011
Peter, will you concur that the only TNR program is one that has a lot of support from the public and a really good network of volunteer caretakers? In fact, it seems volunteers are the core of a good TNR program. What kind of studies have been done in Harford County to see whether or not there is enough interest by people willing to volunteer to do all this work involving transport, vet care, release and continual monitoring and feeding of the colonies? A lot of people might want to go to the shelter and walk and love on dogs. Going out to remote locations in all kinds of weather to work and care for colonies of cats takes commitment, dedication and a lot of time most working people don't have. Are there any estimates on how many feral cats exist in Harford County? Where did the estimates come from?
GMan
2:19 pm on Friday, October 28, 2011
Peter, contrary to your statement that we have two options, the fact is we have one option. And that is to keep doing what we have been doing for the foreseable future especially in regards to feral cats.
You listened to Joan, but you obviously did not hear her. Harford County does not have the resources, funding, personnel or support at this time or anytime soon. All you continue to do is bloviate about what Harford County should do.
The second option you refer to is yours alone since you are so concerned about the alarming number of killed cats here. Take the feral cats off our hands, neuter them and set them free in your county. So please feel free to do something or get out of our way.
Peter Masloch
5:46 pm on Friday, October 28, 2011
Joan, in most cases you will need volunteers to support the program. It also has to be noted that in most other communities the local Animal Shelter is playing a supporting role for TNR besides of just killing the cats. I don't think there is an estimate on the number of feral cats and you probably never will get a good number since nobody in your County seems to care enough to do it. Out of my experience I would say that only 50% of the cats being killed in the Shelter as "Feral" cat are true feral cats. I see it on almost a daily basis that people bring cats to the Shelter in a trap and say "That is a really wild feral cat...". Two days later then I see our volunteers playing with that cat.
In our community we have many retired people taking care of cat colonies. They do that for many years. If they in need of food or other supplies, they can come to the Shelter and we will hand them some bags of food. I know some of them very well and I know they take good care of the cats.
HarfordLassie
10:33 pm on Friday, October 28, 2011
Peter, what happens to the cats when those retired people die or can't get out because of illness or weather?
Peter Masloch
11:16 pm on Friday, October 28, 2011
Joan, most people have already backup and triple backup lined up in case they go on vacation or get sick.
HarfordLassie
11:22 pm on Friday, October 28, 2011
Who is ultimately responsible for the TNR cats, the volunteers or the shelter?
HarfordLassie
10:25 am on Sunday, October 30, 2011
From the National Animal Control Association (who Peter often quotes)-
Animal Facility Capacity Limitations
Approved: 06/04/05
Guideline Statement
NACA recognizes certain municipal and privately run facilities tend to under-utilize euthanasia practices because of changes in management, philosophy, or national trends that are based on "long term housing."
Basis for Guideline
Animals should not be held in overcrowded conditions nor held for excessive time periods that may be mentally or physically detrimental to the animal's welfare. NACA recognizes that municipal and privately run facilities must maintain euthanasia practices in order to control overcrowding problems including disease transmission, behavior degeneration, and overall health problems.
Guideline Recommendation
NACA recommends that each animal holding facility understand their maximum holding capacity and develop sincere policies to avoid these problems that may be considered inhumane themselves.
HarfordLassie
10:25 am on Sunday, October 30, 2011
Companion Animal Housing
Approved: 11/07/08
Guideline Statement
Local governments should routinely review their animal shelter facilities and include them in capital improvement budgets & long term facility planning utilizing architects and designers specializing in animal shelter facilities. New construction or renovations should insure that shelters have species appropriate, state of the art, compassionate housing for dogs, cats and other companion animals designed to limit disease transmission and stress. The facility should be located in an area with high visibility and easy access and include citizen and animal friendly adoption areas.
HarfordLassie
10:26 am on Sunday, October 30, 2011
and on the same page I found this note-
NACA recognizes that in SOME CIRCUMSTANCES, alternative management programs, including Trap Neuter Vaccinate & Release (TNVR) programs may be effective, and recommends that each agency assess the individual need with their community and respond accordingly.
and since feral cats are wild animals, this would apply-
It is a logical extension of an animal control agency's responsibilities to provide response to nuisance livestock and nuisance wildlife complaints, providing it is budgeted properly for such duties.
http://www.nacanet.org/guidelines.html#facility
"some circumstances" doesn't really show they think it's right in every situation. They actually acknowledge the need for euthanasia as a way to control shelter populations and say it is under-utilized, and further they require a state of the art facility! Since feral cats are wildlife they also say it's the agencies responsibility PROVIDING it has the budget.
So really I can cherry pick their stuff and find stuff that supports what the shelter is doing now AND in going forward with a state of the art shelter.
Is there something on the site that I missed that talks about TNR other than this one little paragraph?
NACA recognizes that in SOME CIRCUMSTANCES, alternative management programs, including Trap Neuter Vaccinate & Release (TNVR) programs may be effective, and recommends that each agency assess the individual need with their community and respond accordingly.
HarfordLassie
10:27 am on Sunday, October 30, 2011
BTW, Alley Cat Rescue has a bigger yearly budget specifically for feral cat programs than the shelter- http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments//2010/522/279/2010-522279100-075369c8-9.pdf
HarfordLassie
10:40 am on Sunday, October 30, 2011
Peter said- "It also has to be noted that in most other communities the local Animal Shelter is playing a supporting role for TNR besides of just killing the cats."
What's the source/resource you used to come to this conclusion?
Gina Kazimir
12:16 pm on Friday, October 28, 2011
Kudos for doing something seen rarely anymore - taking a truly in-depth look at a situation and reporting on it in an unbiased way. This information is rational, clear and helpful. I agree that shelter could do a much better job of presenting it themselves, but Joan you did a fantastic piece reporting reality. I commend you and Patch for taking the time and effort!
Kimberly Kanely- Bearsch
12:23 pm on Friday, October 28, 2011
Gina you are spot-on!
Karl Schuub
4:22 pm on Friday, October 28, 2011
It is of no surprise to me that everyone here appreciates the thorough and fair analysis of the problem and it seems we all agree on finding improvements for the animals at the shelter - one of the most valuable, least expensive and possible changes is the idea of special training for people willing to adopt animals that might not be perfect in terms of their behaviors. Far too many dogs are returned to the shelter because the folks didn't realize how difficult it would be. Where we all seem to break ranks is over TNR. The idea of trapping and neutering and releasing of bunch of feral cats is counterproductive to our ability to work together and support other areas where we agree. The idea that you can trap and neuter a cat and that controls the population better than trapping and euthanizing a cat stands logic on it's head. These are not adoptable animals and they don't belong in parks and wetlands.
HarfordLassie
5:27 pm on Friday, October 28, 2011
If you want to help the animals there are a lot of things we can do.
1) Start the word that if all you know is the shelter's reputation from the past, stop in, say hello, look around, make your own conclusions.
2) Write a check. One of the things I heard about while I was at the shelter still stays in my head was solved with $37. The new management talked with staff about what they needed to do their jobs better and one of the techs who had the gruesome task of sending the head of a dead animal to the state for testing for rabies only had an old rusty pair of garden shears that barely cut to try to do the job. That day a trip was made to Home Depot to find a tool that would work quickly and effectively and it only cost $37. So even though you think $5, $25, $50 isn't much, it could make a difference.
3) Attend their events. There is one coming up on the morning of November 5th at the Equestrian Center, the Walk and Wag-A-Thon.
4) Volunteer!! There is some information floating out there that the shelter has over 1000 volunteers. Technically, there is a list that has that many names on it but, much like the software that had 2800 animals in residence, and the rescue/foster list, it hadn't been updated for years and there are only about 150 active volunteers who give varying amounts of time.
5) Check out the wish list and donate supplies on their website.
6) Stay involved, informed, & make your voice heard at the county level.
Karl Schuub
5:47 pm on Friday, October 28, 2011
Economics illustrates the world as a limited pie...those would always be available resources and they are at some point finite. Move monies from adoption animal programs to feral cat programs and adoptable animals suffer.
Christine
8:04 pm on Friday, October 28, 2011
People who donate money to an animal shelter, think they are doing something good to help an animal. I am sorry, Joan, anybody who works in the field of animal care and uses rusty garden shears to cut of animals' heads until Papa Fang comes along to take $37 out of the donation box and takes a trip to Home Depot, should have their own head examined.
HarfordLassie
9:30 pm on Friday, October 28, 2011
I don't think I said anything about who at the shelter took care of this or who paid for it. Are you projecting Christine? . Perhaps whoever in the previous management started the process of using garden shears in place of the proper equipment should have had their head examined?
I've heard rumors about a hundred or more animals having to be put down in a single day because a previous administration hoarded so many animals in an unhealthy environment disease was spreading. Why do you think I had such a bad view of the shelter in my first blog? It was the shelter's past reputation.
Stacy Rawlings
8:30 pm on Friday, October 28, 2011
Good grief! She was trying to make a point about improvements. Believe it or not, the lprevious administration refused to purchase simple items and tools that most shelters take for granted. It got to the point that none of the employees would even ask for anything because they knew they would be turned down. Most shelters who are burdened with the task of decapitation have the proper tools to do so safely and quickly. "Papa" Fang (and that is a rude reference in my opinion) made sure that simple yet extremely convenient tools and supplies were never denied the staff... THAT is an important improvement that this admin has made, whether you want to believe it or not and whether you want to disrespect that or not. They don't need their heads examined, they needed an administration that gave a damn about their working conditions and now they have that.
Christine
8:41 pm on Friday, October 28, 2011
OK...I withdraw my comment. I am glad the tech department now has shiny new decapitations shears to make their lives easier. I stand corrected.
Stacy Rawlings
8:51 pm on Friday, October 28, 2011
A laboratory grade decapitation guillotine costs over $1000, that would actually be the safest and easiest way for the staff to do this hideous task without risking exposure due to blood splatter. I have often thought to fund raise to get the shelter one for the vet techs, but have never done so, I regret that. There actually hasn't been an adimistration in the past that I would trust with such an expensive tool until now. Instead of commenting negatively on something that the shelter has to do and that you apparently know little about Christine, why don't you start a fundraiser to get them one? I am sure it would be deeply appreciated. Oh, and before malicious rumors fly on this subject, rabies suspect animals are euthanized BEFORE they are decapitated. You can buy it here: http://www.geneq.com/catalog/en/guillotine.html
Peter Masloch
8:57 pm on Friday, October 28, 2011
Just out of curiosity, how many animals are you decapitating, let's say per month? Dogs? Cats? Is that exclusively per order from the Health Department?
Stacy Rawlings
9:03 pm on Friday, October 28, 2011
Only by order by the Health Dept. It depends Peter on how many people are bitten by animals that are either wildlife or domestic with no vaccination history and showing symptoms of rabies. Domestics are generally held for a quarantine period and cleared unless they are ordered PTS and tested by the Health Department. I'm sure you can obtain those statistics from the Health Department themselves.
Peter Masloch
11:20 pm on Friday, October 28, 2011
How many people in the Shelter are certified to do this? Just the ACO's and the Director/Manager or do you have Kennel Tech's certified too?
Stacy Rawlings
11:43 pm on Friday, October 28, 2011
I don't believe there is any such certification to decapitate a rabies suspect animal, although with all the certifications you can obtain, I wouldn't be surprised if there weren't some sort of class to certify.. however to my knowledge the state does not require those who decapitate for this purpose to have a certificate to do so.
Stacy Rawlings
11:44 pm on Friday, October 28, 2011
If you want a definite answer to that question I would suggest calling the state veterinary office or dept of Agriculture to find out for certain.
HarfordLassie
11:47 pm on Friday, October 28, 2011
Who does it at Allegany, Peter? What are their certifications?
Peter Masloch
12:25 am on Saturday, October 29, 2011
I apologize, Stacy. I worded my question wrong. I wanted to know how many people have the certificate to euthanize.
Joan, ACO's and the Manager.
Stacy Rawlings
12:34 am on Saturday, October 29, 2011
I couldn't tell you the number of people the shelter has certified to euthanize, David Fang could give you those statistics if you were to direct that question to him. I am a supporter of the shelter, and I know County and State law regarding Animal related issues, but I do not work for the shelter and therefore it would not be right for me to answer a question more appropriately directed to them.
Christine
9:05 pm on Friday, October 28, 2011
I know about rabies, Stacy and I did not comment negatively on the decapitation procedure per se. If I started a fundraiser it would be to get animals vaccinated. Why don't you share how you are qualified to throw previous administrations under the bus.
HarfordLassie
9:44 pm on Friday, October 28, 2011
Things like this are what separate the novice from the professional on how to run a business/organization/shelter. You don't endanger your personnel, and risk their health, being cited by the health department, (or shut down), or being sued. There are a lot of expenses just to keep the doors open and operate legally.
Christine
10:28 pm on Friday, October 28, 2011
Joan, when was the last time the health department inspected the place?
HarfordLassie
10:34 pm on Friday, October 28, 2011
Why don't you tell me Christine?
Stacy Rawlings
9:14 pm on Friday, October 28, 2011
I am a person just as you are who wants what we all want, the best for all the stray animals in the County "Christine". I have observed and come to my opinions over the years, just as you have, first hand observation when I have been at the shelter, just as say you have come to your conclusions by your observations during your time at the shelter. I am as entitled to share my views of this issue as anyone else. Do you have a problem with that?
Christine
9:36 pm on Friday, October 28, 2011
No, Stacy.... not at all. I've known you to be reasonable person and an animal lover. We just don't agree on some things.
Stacy Rawlings
9:55 pm on Friday, October 28, 2011
And it is OK that we don't agree on some things or even many things. Our hopes and goals for the future are in fact very similar. That is why I prefer to concentrate on the ultimate goal and do my best to keep my emotions in check and remain friends with those who speak out, whom I know are doing what they believe they must to achieve those goals. I pray I'll receive the same consideration.
Christine
10:33 pm on Friday, October 28, 2011
You did not remain friends with me once I spoke out, but your comments have my consideration.
HarfordLassie
11:19 pm on Friday, October 28, 2011
Sounds like a few of the HOPE people that friended me on my first blog and unfriended me on the last.
Stacy Rawlings
11:15 pm on Friday, October 28, 2011
I felt I had no choice at the time, unfortunately I can also be emotionally impacted by these issues and to remain "friends" put me in a position were I saw postings on my news feed that I was better off not to read... I deleted several friendships to get the posts off my news feed. You weren't the only one and it wasn't personal. I know when I need to get away from something that isn't good for me at the time.
Stacy Rawlings
11:16 pm on Friday, October 28, 2011
My respect has not changed.
HarfordLassie
2:57 pm on Friday, November 4, 2011
Just an update on some things that have happened since my blog post was written here on Patch. The HOPE group complained that I had not spoken with them as a group and gotten "their side of the story. In discussions in private messages as well as an ongoing dialogue on their Facebook page, it became pretty evident that HOPE's main existence was based on a snapshot in time of the 2010 statistics released by HSHC, some personal grievances between some previous shelter employees/volunteers. There are no comparisons to look at for improvement and no knowledge of programs implemented since they parted ways.
In addition HOPE is advocating for "No-Kill Formula" being used at the shelter and "TNR" programs for feral cats, none of which HOPE is willing to take on under their own umbrella. I found they are attempting to force these plans on HSHC at a time when HSHC not only doesn't have the facility and staff to take on these programs, but are limited by country regulations that would need to be changed as well.
HOPE advocates of the "No-Kill" formula and "TNR" programs. They believe in these two programs as being the only possible ways to control populations in animal shelters.. When Peter asked for examples of failures, I posted failures of "no-kill" and studies I found from AVMA on TNR, I was removed and banned from their pages and all of my comments that asked why they weren't actually willing to run these programs outside of HSHC were removed.
Draw your own conclusions.
Karl Schuub
3:05 pm on Friday, November 4, 2011
I have done my own research as well. It sure seems to me that any evidence that might question the wisdom or efficacy of TRN is met with a round of fingers in the ears by these folks. We would be much better off educating the public to be more responsible pet owners than feeding unwanted animals outside.
Nick
5:12 pm on Friday, November 4, 2011
It's easy. They are a group that has an agenda and they are unwilling to compromise it. I too have visited the AVMA website many times and found that it was very objective and the studies were done by actual scientists, not "colony caregivers." There were studies that seemed to draw the conclusion that TNR was beneficial and studies that showed that it wasn't. The problem is that many people refused to hear anything that wasn't 100% support for TNR. What I have found in my research is that TNR is effective if the rate is above 90%. Below that and you have a bunch of well meaning people supporting a static or increasing colony of cats indefinitely. And achieving a 9o%+ rate for TNR is not as easy as many would lead you to believe. In fact, I found evidence that showed it was extremely difficult except in the most controlled of settings ie. the college campus study they were all so quick to cite. Unfortunately the majority of the world isn't a college campus and such studies didn't really apply. Another contributing factor was the amount of feral cats in an area and the most effective implementation of TNR were in areas that had very low population densities.
While I care about the lives of animals, I feel that certain environmental considerations are paramount to the life of a cat. I hate the thought of an adoptable animal being euthanized, but I just don't feel that Harford County is an appropriate venue for a TNR program.
HarfordLassie
7:56 pm on Friday, November 4, 2011
I went into this blog subject as someone who had a lot of concerns about HSHC, after years of bad press and mismanagement. After listening to individuals from HOPE and visiting with HSHC, my conclusions differed from theirs. The difference between how these two groups reacted to criticism and tough questions were like night and day. HSHC provided everything to every question or criticism I had, even when it was uncomfortable, listened to my thoughts and I left knowing without a doubt the goal of HSHC is to adopt every healthy animal possible and their plans are to continue to increase those numbers. They've done the research, looked at the studies, talked to the pros and came up with solid plans.
HOPE only wanted to share individual stories of the past at HSHC, criticize HSHC from a snapshot in time from over a year ago, and only engage in discussions where the No-Kill movement and TNR were shown in a favorable light, and not examine the failures and studies that didn't back up those movements. Their passion and devotion to their specific causes are admirable, and underneath it all I know they are only trying to save as many animals as possible, but I can't help but wonder if they are misled or just refusing to acknowledge that No-Kill and TNR are not the nirvana they preach for every situation, and can become a life of pain and suffering for the animals instead. It's really too bad that passion can't be channeled into positive action beyond keyboards.
Randy Daniels
1:32 am on Saturday, November 5, 2011
Amen to that.. NO kill is a pipe dream of a plagarizing lawyer TNR is just a quick death for the cats placed into it. as for the list of no kill shelters they need to research them for I know that most have backed off no kill
Randy Daniels
1:52 am on Saturday, November 5, 2011
Ask Allegany County what their death rate is due to overcrowding, panleuc and parvo. Or how many animals have just disappeared form the facility. They are now looking for farmers to take TNR cats... now thats a lovely way to die... stepped on or kicked... eaten by the pigs chomped by machinery, frozen in the winter starved to death by uncaring farmers, shall I go on?
HarfordLassie
9:11 am on Saturday, November 5, 2011
Are you referring to this post from the HOPE site?
"From "NO KILL Maryland" - can you help?
We are in desperate need of a farm or other location that we can release feral cats that we have had spayed/neutered, rabies shots and are feleuk-negative. We need to get these cats out of the shelter and need to prove to the community that a true TNR effort is successful. If you know of anyone that can take any (up to 10 feral cats) ASAP please have them contact us at the shelter, Karl (240-362-2656) or email us (shelterschedule@gmail.com) their information as soon as possible."
Stacy Rawlings
10:03 am on Saturday, November 5, 2011
I for one would be very interest in hearing more of what Mr. Daniels has to convey on the situation in Allegany County, how the shelter has faired since going No Kill, by maintaining a 90% save rate... what are some of the negative aspects of this movement on a shelter that was previously open admissions and how this move has affected their homeless animals and citizens? Please post more information. I think it's important to hear both sides from a shelter that has made this commitment to the No Kill Philosophy. We have been bombarded by those who support this movement, I knew that there was another side to this out there and I'd like to hear it from those who live there and are involved in Animal welfare in some respect.
Peter Masloch
7:05 am on Saturday, November 5, 2011
Oh look, it is Mr. Macdaniel from Cumberland, MD. I was wondering how long it would take you to show up here and spread your lies.
Mr. Macdaniel here is the son of Peggy Macdaniel, who is the President of the Animal Welfare Society in Cumberland AND President of the Allegany County Animal Shelter Control Board.
How is your Mom doing, by the way? I haven't seen her for some time. Does she know you are posting this here? I will have to let her know...... :-)
Michelle Ingrodi
12:28 pm on Saturday, November 5, 2011
How's that $300,000 the AWS is sitting on? Taking alll that money from people with the impression that they're going to help animals with it, only to do what? Buy new office furniture, a new vehicle 5 years ago that they are just now attempting to use for animal purposes, and programs for 1st graders to teach them to be kind to animals. First graders! Three hundred thousand dollars that they're blowing on crayons. I love my hometown, but sometimes I wish they'd come screaming into the 21st century.
Peter, how sad is it to read the things these people, who know NOTHING about shelter life, have to say about ACAS? Joan and Stacy complain about diseases breaking out in a shelter, and having to close. Yet they fail to mention how many times BARCS has had to close their own intake for the same disease outbreak. Or any other shelter in the US. No, they just target Allegany because it's the shelter that's actually going to force other shelters to get off their asses and do real work.
Oh and did you see where they said the old ACAS administration threw up their hands and walked out? Ha! They don't know that the old director was nearly run out of town for stepping on cats and heartsticking them. Or that she played Farmville ALL day and had screenshots sent to the commissioners who ripped her apart for it, or how she shredded her killing logs for days before she left. No. They only hear what they want, and deny the possibility that we might be right, just so they can win an argument.
RW Willy
7:14 am on Saturday, November 5, 2011
pot meet kettle!
Hey pete, you the only outsider allowed to post?
Peter Masloch
7:31 am on Saturday, November 5, 2011
The least thing you can do, besides of being afraid and hiding behind a pseudonym, is spell my name right. It is Peter, not Pete.
HarfordLassie
9:37 am on Saturday, November 5, 2011
Peter, isn't that what most of the members of HOPE are doing, hiding behind this HOPE name on their page, because they don't want their names to be public?
I think it's rather interesting that you and your friends shut out anyone with a different opinion on the HOPE page to stop "circular discussions", yet you are here to do what, exactly? One of the major complaints of HOPE is not getting answers from HSHC, or recognizing problems that need to be corrected, but that openness doesn't seem to apply to discussions of their agenda- "No-Kill" and "TNR" -on their own page.. I find somewhat hypocritical, don't you?
You and HOPE were more than willing to talk about the success of these programs, but when challenged to show failures, which I did, I was "excused" and my comments deleted. It seems open dialogue on these topics is not encouraged and I can't help but wonder how many failures are really out there.
The pleading post from HOPE looking for farms for feral cats is from your shelter. It would seem you have already encountered problems finding willing partners for TNR in just less than a year of your new plan. What happens in two years, or three, or more? It's not going to look good at the one year anniversary on November 29th if your shelter is housing feral cats that have nowhere to go. If the feral cats keep coming in with nowhere to go what are you going to do with all of them? Will you turn away other animals?
Stacy Rawlings
10:22 am on Saturday, November 5, 2011
It is unfortunate that the HOPE group refused to interact with you Joan on their forum on face book and when the questions you were asking about their agenda became more specific, they chose to delete your posts and ban you from the page. those questions were in regard to their own actions, their own plans as a group to improve the kill rates in our county. Not once did they give you a straight answer on what they as a group were going to physically do to help. When you pressed for an answer to that particular question, they simply deleted you and all your posts off the wall. To me, that is a testament to their lack of ability to come to the table and work with others to do what they themselves are complaining over. If you can't work with people who have differing opinions, but still want the same results, then how can you organize and execute programs county wide to improve the Kill rate? This refusal to interact and participate in a simple civilized conversation on the pro's and con's of this subject creates a dysfunction in communications that undeniably sets them into fail mode.
Stacy Rawlings
10:23 am on Saturday, November 5, 2011
Anger seems to be the driving force to me as an observer and I know that any mission fueled by anger is doomed to fail. Not that their mission isn't valid, their means of executing their mission is wrought in negativity and some sense of vindication and that will in the end be their demise. If they cannot engage in simple pro and con conversation on a written forum such as facebook or the Patch, how can we expect that they would ever be able to sit across from County officials, the Shelter management or any citizen who is skeptical of or opposed to this movement and be effective or come to agreements to lower the kill rate in our county. Too bad...
HarfordLassie
11:00 am on Saturday, November 5, 2011
I think they have already given us the blueprint of how they "changed" things in Allegany county. Much like HSUS, and PETA, draw the public into the plight of the animals that are being euthanized, criticize the management of the shelter and drive them out, get petitions going that animal lovers blindly sign, show up at county meetings with lots of claims and promises, get control of the shelter after shelter management resign, as volunteers who want to help, and then hold the shelter hostage Above all keep the dialogue emotional, because if people really look deeper it's not all roses, and can actually cause more animal suffering.
Michelle Ingrodi
12:19 pm on Saturday, November 5, 2011
I'd also like to mention that I was banned from EVERY HSHC page, before ever leaving a comment. So your whining about being deleted from HOPE, where you only go to ask questions you don't even want the answers to, because you've got it all figured out already, right Joan? Anyone who comes to that page to start trouble is deleted.
Plenty of people from the group are still willing to meet with you and answer any questions you have. I believe that offer has been extended to you, and you replied with a half-hearted "I'll check my schedule." You jumped into bed so fast with HSHC, I guess they've got you whipped.
HarfordLassie
12:38 pm on Saturday, November 5, 2011
I was challenged by Peter on the HOPE page to show any failures in TNR and "no-kill". I provided some example and links. Directly after that all of my comments were deleted. Go figure. Not to worry, I have printouts of everything up to that point for my records.
Peter Masloch
2:55 pm on Saturday, November 5, 2011
Well, Michelle, at least we know it is as we expected. Some people buy in to any lies and repeating them as long it fits in to their agenda. In the end of the day, it doesn't really matter what Joan believes or doesn't believe, what she does or doesn't do. It just doesn't matter. Yes Joan, we are hiding thousands of feral cats in our shed and in the basement from our Sheriff Office. But don't tell the Sheriff, he doesn't know it yet.
HarfordLassie
3:07 pm on Saturday, November 5, 2011
Seriously Peter, is that the best you can do? I gave you examples of failures for both no-kill and TNR, and now there are actual figures from your shelter in a newspaper article, and your shelter is begging people to take feral cats to prove your programs work. No Justifications? Those figures are far worse than HSHC after almost a year of your programs. The best you can do is ignore them and pretend they don't exist? I would have thought better from you. I guess I was wrong.
Stacy Rawlings
3:53 pm on Saturday, November 5, 2011
Peter, I think you have that wrong. What Joan says, does & thinks, does indeed matter, perhaps not to you & Michelle, but to the rest of us, they do. It matters because she is one of the only people I have seen who questioned the Shelter just as you did and leaned toward supporting HOPES efforts. She went looking for answers & facts, found them & shared them along with her opinion. I also think that what Karl, Nick, Danielle posted as comments on Joan's blog matters too. You went on the defensive toward each of them when they posted here & insulted them all with pointless replies insinuating that they too lacked education on the matters. They represent the citizens of Harford County & ultimately will influence the county & the shelter to decide it's future policy in respect to these issues. Your overwhelming lack of respect for people in general is unbecoming and makes it very easy to discount you as someone to pay attention to and respect the opinions you share. Joan on the other hand has gained a great deal of respect for her journey through this, albeit brief compared to your years doing this, it doesn't discount her understanding of what she has discovered. It's so easy to accuse her of not knowing enough about this industry to have a valid opinion or being foolish enough to be mesmerizer somehow by her shelter meeting. I think that's insulting to her intelligence, which makes you look like a bully to the rest of us, who find her to be quite intelligent & reasonable.
HarfordLassie
4:20 pm on Saturday, November 5, 2011
Thanks Stacy. I appreciate your supportive comments. It's been quite a journey, with many twists and turns, and it will keep evolving as more information and studies come into the equation. I won't be swayed by personal agendas or intimidation, but I will always be open to facts.
HarfordLassie
10:44 am on Saturday, November 5, 2011
Thanks to Peter mentioning Peggy MacDaniel, a Google search turned up something else very interesting. Peter's no-kill shelter was essentially shut down in July of this year due to diseases running rampant...and somehow 12 animals "escaped" during the first 6 months. 22% of the dogs were adopted, only 3% were transferred to rescues, 6% returned to owners. In the numbers given in this article, 30% of the 600 animals that came in from January till July are totally unaccounted for, and there is no mention at all of a TNR program, which we know from the HOPE post is already running out of caretakers just shy of a year.
http://times-news.com/local/x202392267/Animal-board-hears-shelter-update/print
Stacy Rawlings
11:05 am on Saturday, November 5, 2011
Shelters do have to close when they encounter deadly viruses, but they reoccur in shelters with overcrowding & poor cleaning practices. Escaped animals? Seriously? That's 2 animals per month in 6 months who have walked/run out of the shelter on their own and disappeared? It can happen randomly with cats being transferred now and again, but how does it happen so frequently? This frequency would surely be cause for a review of shelter practices to prevent it from happening again, you would think? 30% unaccounted for? Something is either very wrong with the record keeping or people are walking out with animals and not accounting for their whereabouts! Keeping accurate records of each animal is vital, and that number of unaccounted for animals is not acceptable to me... how is it that this shelter should be a model of what the HSHC is supposed to be? I don't think so! I think someone better stop throwing stones?
HarfordLassie
11:15 am on Saturday, November 5, 2011
Also, looks like the Allegany shelter was closed from mid June till the end of August
http://www.wcbcradio.com/?archiv=no-kill-policy-still-a-controversy
HarfordLassie
11:19 am on Saturday, November 5, 2011
...and it appears Alleghany county is not officially a no-kill facility-
Does Allegany County Animal Control have a "no kill" policy?
The Allegany County Animal Control does not have a "no kill" policy. If an animal is incurably ill or severely injured , euthanasia can be the most humane alternative.
http://gov.allconet.org/animal/Volunteer.html
HarfordLassie
11:34 am on Saturday, November 5, 2011
Chieft Devore on YouTube July 13, 2011, very assertively saying Allegany is NOT a "no-kill" shelter, and discussing TNR saying it is NOT the save all for anything, reaching out to vets and the public on what is the best way to approach situation, announcement of ROPE program.. Unfortunately the video cuts off as Ms. MacDaniel begins to present a different perspective.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkYV4WKWZQU&feature=related
HarfordLassie
11:50 am on Saturday, November 5, 2011
@Stacy, that Allegany "model" has worse statistics than HSHC had in 2010 and they had close to 4-5 times the number of animals to deal with, maybe more.
Stacy Rawlings
12:03 pm on Saturday, November 5, 2011
So I am confused.. why has HOPE been using the Allegany Shelter as their model in their posts and on their face book page? Did they not check them out before they selected them as the shelter they use as an example of perfection for NO Kill? Did they simply hear "No Kill" and assume that everything was good there? Oh, that changed them alright.... I'll bet the animals that have been there have tales to tell.... especially the 30% that they can account for. Were those 30% secretly put to sleep due to space, or dog fights, or what? Leads one to ponder. No wonder their administration threw up their hands and left... these statistics go against everything a good shelter should be.... If this is what was being forced upon them, I'd have left too...
HarfordLassie
12:10 pm on Saturday, November 5, 2011
It also appears Peggy MacDaniel is holding her original position, and is watching this all play out, continuing to voice her concern and opposition (which explains Peter's attack on Randy).. Devore looks downright frustrated in the You Tube video trying to justify his position, and I give him props for opening up discussions with other groups in his county for solutions. I sort of feel sorry for him because it sure sounds like a good idea on the surface, and I can see how he got drawn into it, because who doesn't want to save the lives of animals? But their numbers after 6 months are dismal and their current position of no place for feral cats sort of prove just the opposite of what has been claimed. .
Stacy Rawlings
12:18 pm on Saturday, November 5, 2011
http://www.wcbcradio.com/?archiv=no-kill-policy-still-a-controversy
That's an interesting blurb... another instance of their closing due to sickness running rampant at the shelter.. The sad thing is that until they see what they've done in making this change, many of their homeless animals will suffer at their hands, die of hideous virus outbreaks, live in over crowded conditions and have to be put to sleep in the end anyway because of those conditions, if they in fact euthanize them when they become too sick to make it ... how many have to die to prove it doesn't work? In the meantime of course, more homeless animals come in daily, weekly, and what do they do with them in this environment? They too become exposed to these illnesses and the cycle just continues... so sad...
HarfordLassie
12:34 pm on Saturday, November 5, 2011
Meanwhile Peter posted the comment below on the NoKill Alleghany page last month, even if I factor in 28% of animals in residence in the shelter, there is no way it's 93%, not anywhere close
22% dogs, 15% cats adopted, 3% total to rescue, 6% total returned comes to 46%. If I add in the animals in residence it comes to 74% overall not killed. What happened to the other 26%?
From Peter's page-
"No Kill Allegany County
10 months ago Dick Devore suspended euthanasia at the Allegany County Animal Shelter, hired a new Shelter Director, Karl Brubaker, and the ACAS has consistently saved over 93% of the animals in their care! Keep up the great work!
Like · · Share · September 29 at 12:52pm · "
Michelle Ingrodi
12:39 pm on Saturday, November 5, 2011
Joan, you can look all you want at the Allegany statistics from 2010. I doubt they're correct because the old director shredded everything to save her ass. The new director didn't take office until April of this year, so start your search then.
Also, the building did not close specifically for disease. The insides had not been cleaned or painted in years. They did all of that, as well as changed offices, got new cages, put down new floors, etc. You can blame it on disease all you want, because that's what you need to hear to make your argument work. But why don't you do what you do best, and take a drive up to Allegany and meet with that director? Your so good at talking trash when you don't know facts.
HarfordLassie
1:04 pm on Saturday, November 5, 2011
Michelle, I can see you are confused. I was comparing OLD statistics from HSHC that HOPE keeps using against July 2011 figures for Allegany, their model of excellence, just 8 months after implementing "no-kill" and TNR. July 2011, as in this current year.
Stacy Rawlings
10:50 am on Saturday, November 5, 2011
Portraying your posts on their page as creating a "Circular conversation" is a great way to end the discussion, so they do not have to answer your very valid questions. To me, it suggests that someone in the conversation suffers a personality disorder and cannot grasp the truth or hear the other persons points of view.... I wonder which entity in the conversation that was?? LOL! It sincerely gave me a chuckle! There is an air of righteousness in their posts, an inability to hear or respect any opinion that doesn't align with or validate their intent and agenda. They become instantly frustrated with the situation and begin to pull out the big and nasty guns of name calling or reply to invalidate one's knowledge of the subject or their overall intelligence. To tell anyone that their opinion of this doesn't count because they are not educated enough on the subject would invalidate most people in Harford County who do indeed have their own personal opinion on what takes place in their community and what they want regarding it.
Karl Schuub
11:07 am on Saturday, November 5, 2011
It's laughable that the TNR friends are begging farmers to take thier spare cats - do we count that as a population reduction or just moving cats around? I will tell you most assuredly a feral cat moved from one location to another rarely stays put...you're chances of creating a new colony that way are next to zero and the cat most likely dies. TNR is cruel to animals and exists less for the animals and more for the people that have a misguided obsession with cats.
Stacy Rawlings
11:24 am on Saturday, November 5, 2011
Agreed Karl. I too am on the fence regarding TNR, and I actually volunteer for a low cost spay & neuter program within our county! How's that for a hoot! I love cats & am fortunate to have a sizable farm where I am able to maintain a small colony. My doing so, doesn't affect another single person & since I am committed to their health & understand the necessity of vaccines I take the time & effort to keep them current. However I do not agree that moving in & feeding and providing housing for cats on public or small private properties that adjoin others property in close proximity is the right thing to do. Furthermore, I don't agree with convincing "farmers" to allow you to seed their properties with colonies is right for the welfare of the cats. Most farmers do not want a significant population of cats on their property. They don't want to walk through their poo, feed their livestock feed and hay that has been soiled, have the cats get hurt or killed by machinery, have farm dogs terrorize & kill them... most don't care about spay and neuter & will not absorb those costs either. They ignore small numbers, but when they become overrun they either take matters into their own hands or have them picked up and removed. TNR has become bastardized into hoarding on someone else's property for the most part in my opinion. There are many definitions of TNR, depending on who you are and where you stand on the issue. I do not agree with seeding colonies! It is inhumane & they do not stay.
Michelle Ingrodi
12:15 pm on Saturday, November 5, 2011
The Allegany County shelter has never claimed to be no-kill, I have no idea where you get that it is or was. They refer to themselves as a Shelter of Hope, where they do what they can for every animal that comes through the door.
Thank you though, for pointing out that animals are put down for medical or behavior issues, as that is in the very definition of No Kill.
Joan, you are a piece of work. Enjoy your 15 minutes.
Stacy Rawlings
10:10 pm on Saturday, November 5, 2011
Michelle, Joan "gets" that the Allegany Shelter IS "No Kill" from the first post Peter posted on the Patch under Mr. Fangs Blog proclaiming it to be so. Let me refresh your memory by copying that statement here:
Peter Masloch
8:13am on Monday, October 17, 2011
"David, I thank you very much for taking the time to write this blog and open a channel of communication. To my person, I'm more or less the person responsible for turning the municipal open admission animal shelter in Allegany County from a high kill shelter in to a no kill shelter and today I work in this animal shelter." .....
Stacy Rawlings
10:11 pm on Saturday, November 5, 2011
So Peter proclaims them a "No Kill" shelter, but you, also involved in their change over, says they are not.... which is it?
Peter Masloch
10:20 pm on Saturday, November 5, 2011
Actually it is both. Legally the Shelter still can euthanize animals. But the County Code doesn't say the Shelter MUST use that option. Actually pretty simple.
Stacy Rawlings
10:30 pm on Saturday, November 5, 2011
Well thanks Peter for clearing that up, but the discrepancy between your and Michelle's comments makes me uneasy. Surely she knows you proclaim your shelter as No Kill, and has made reference to it being so in her own posts, so why the statement now from her that it isn't. It just seems strange to me.
HarfordLassie
10:48 pm on Saturday, November 5, 2011
Stacy, I think this is where the "circular discussion" part comes in. :-)
Michelle Ingrodi
12:35 pm on Saturday, November 5, 2011
FYI folks: Stacy Rawlings works at Animal Control of Harford County. How much does she love animals? Let's read a bit: "don't email or call me with animal control complaints and expect ANYTHING... especially when I'm off duty, I do have a life beyond AC ya know? so before I blow on someone, just wanted to put it out there... Call Harford County Animal Control (410) 638-3505."
Awesome. Glad to know that there are people who work in these places who see it as just a job, instead of having compassion for any animal in need.
Stacy Rawlings
1:02 pm on Saturday, November 5, 2011
Wow, like that is going to stop me from posting my opinion on a subject that is important to me Michelle. And is that the most horrible thing you could find to post, that I don't appreciate being called to answer complaints when I'm off duty, in the dead of night while I'm sleeping or with my family and own animals. Yes that is my job, but everyone deserves to live their lives outside of work. You assume that ACO's have to respond at all times? You know nothing about this work. The desire to have my own time means I don't love animals? LOL! It means that I have a life beyond my job, that I balance work and personal time and that I value it. That comment was posted on my own face book page, in a week that I received about 30 calls, emails, or texts of complaints by private citizens while I was OFF duty. it's unacceptable. ACO's cannot take or work complaints when they are not on duty Michelle and those complaints should go to the Office of Animal Control, not to an individual officer who may not be available... give me a break. Do you call your mechanic or your tailor at home or out of bed and expect them to come running to provide you service? I post here when I am off duty, because I am genuinely concerned about this issue and the animal at the HSHC. I will continue to do so as I see fit on my own time. No amount of irritation on your part will stop me from doing what I think is right. Thank you.
HarfordLassie
1:23 pm on Saturday, November 5, 2011
Michelle is just projecting her anger and being irrational again Stacy. Seems her history is to attack individuals, claim to be a victim, and avoid confronting facts or discussion that doesn't agree with her. Just about everything in this article that she claimed Allegany did to her, she has claimed in these blog responses that HSHC supposedly did too. It's getting old....sort of like the kid that cried wolf.
http://www.phdispatch.com/news_shelter_volunteers_harmony.html
and
I didn't know until a post today by her on her Charm City Animal Rescue page that I was intent on destroying HOPE. I'm seeing a continuing pattern.....
"They're up against people making excuses for the killing that happens there, including a blogger who knows nothing about rescue or shelter work, but has made it her mission to destroy the group because she had one meeting with the folks who authorize the THOUSANDS of euthanasias at this shelter."
Funny thing is, the shelter Michelle and Peter took over is statistically worse than HSHC on adoptions, reuniting with owners, no accounting for 30% of the animals, and their TNR program is currently maxed out in less than a year.
http://times-news.com/local/x202392267/Animal-board-hears-shelter-update/print
Michelle, you will have to come to the table with something other than anger and a model that is dismal to win over anyone that this is the way to go.
Stacy Rawlings
12:43 pm on Saturday, November 5, 2011
http://times-news.com/local/x316466253/No-kill-animal-advocates-want-philosophy-adopted-at-shelter/print
An interesting historic look into the Cumberland process of going "No Kill" after pressured to do so by No Kill advocates ... citizens should read up and see what went on during the process and look now and see where they are... knowledge is power either way.
HarfordLassie
12:43 pm on Saturday, November 5, 2011
Michelle, you seem defensive, and especially combative today. Does it have something to do with the dismal numbers reported at Allegany, the shelter that you and Peter had so much to do with changing?
http://times-news.com/local/x202392267/Animal-board-hears-shelter-update/print
Stacy Rawlings
12:46 pm on Saturday, November 5, 2011
http://times-news.com/local/x890685557/Feral-cat-policy-discussed-at-City-Council
Again, knowledge is power, no matter your stand on these issues.... it's good to read what is going on where these ideas are being considered or implemented.
HarfordLassie
1:08 pm on Saturday, November 5, 2011
Exactly Stacy, just because something looks good on the surface doesn't mean it's all it appears to be. This is exactly why I dug deeper into HSHC to see want was below the surface and found so much more to celebrate and applaud. . Unfortunately, thanks to Peter mentioning Peggy McDaniel, I found things below the surface of the "model" shelter in Maryland that HOPE is using as a comparison that are rather disturbing.
HarfordLassie
1:00 pm on Saturday, November 5, 2011
WOW, Michelle, thanks for that "bombshell" about Stacy you just dropped.. Seems like that is exactly what the county would want her to do, rather than circumvent the county and be a loose cannon on her own time. I'm going to call them on Monday and commend Stacy for keeping her work life and personal life separate. On a separate note, her authority on the subjects at hand have jumped up in my ratings if she is not employed by HSHC but does have day to day direct experience with everything we are talking about.
Stacy Rawlings
1:20 pm on Saturday, November 5, 2011
While I would have preferred to leave my profession out of this discussion, it's really neither here nor there. Just like anyone else with an opinion on this subject, I have a right to voice my own personal opinion and views on what is being considered here. So many folks know me and know what I do, but have the class to keep what I do out of this discussion out of respect for me and respect for my level of knowledge of the subject. Michelle possess no respect for anyone, so no surprise she thinks somehow telling those who do not already know what I do will exit me from the discussion, thus eliminating someone who may not believe as she does. Thank you Joan for your comment. I want to be heard on this from a personal level, not a professional one. I don't represent anyone or any entity other than myself when I voice my opinions.
HarfordLassie
1:37 pm on Saturday, November 5, 2011
Stacy, if you are a Harford county resident, you have more standing than Michelle to voice an opinion on what happens in our county at our shelter, on that basis alone. Michelle has a right to her opinion as well, but not a right to force something in our county that is unproven and evidently already having issues in nearby Allegany county less than a year into the program. In fact, it's my opinion that Michelle's angry posts, and the way things went down at Allegany, do more to alienate people than to convert anyone that these programs are worthy.
I don't have an agenda, other than taking the best steps for our county to deal with our current and future issues involving the animals at HCHS. If all of these various groups who want to save the animals put this energy into legislation and enforcement of tougher penalties for animal abuse, neglect and abandonment, the root cause of our problems, and public education on spay/neuter, we might have better odds of saving more animals long term than the well intentioned no-kill and TRN programs that are quickly overwhelmed,
Stacy Rawlings
1:59 pm on Saturday, November 5, 2011
I am not a resident of Harford County actually. But I do have a vest interest in it's citizens and it's population of homeless animals. The results of the No Kill movement's actions in the County will directly impact me in professional aspect. In truth, my posts, as theirs, are from the prospective of an outsider to the County and should not be taken as seriously as those of County residents even in my opinion. And like you, I am and have always been interested in seeing solutions to euthanasia in shelters. It's a sad reality that is happening every day in all open admissions shelter. My own personal opinions are based on my experience, and I have a great deal of that. What the County decides to do regarding these issues of TNR, getting themselves involved in the philosophy of the shelter, governing the shelter, is up to them. I'm certain that citizen input will be the deciding factor and I hope that the citizens will not be railroaded into standing for a position because they have not investigated all the facts as you have Joan. It's easy as animal lovers to jump on the bandwagon of No Kill, but as you say, looking deeper can be disturbing and mind changing. It decided my opinion and that's why I advocate everyone looking closer on their own instead of simply believing what they read. You, Karl, Nick and Danielle are the only 3 people who have entered comments here who appear to simply be citizens with opinions and look at the comments they were subjected to as a result.
HarfordLassie
1:49 pm on Saturday, November 5, 2011
In other news, Peter's shelter, and Michelle's CCAR rescue each just received $25,000 to directly benefit animals.
http://times-news.com/local/x1415465759/Animal-shelter-receives-very-generous-gift
It will be interesting to see CCAR's 990 next year to see how that money is spent. This may change Michelle's unemployment status (as she revealed on these blogs) to self employed as well since she has gained $25,000 in income to her solely owned non-profit, which well exceeds the amount allowed to continuing drawing benefits from unemployment.
HarfordLassie
2:19 pm on Saturday, November 5, 2011
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150352373329842&set=a.211381794841.134074.201025069841&type=1&theater
Peter Masloch
7:31 pm on Saturday, November 5, 2011
I'm really trying to comprehend why you are so interested in Michelle's Rescue and what she is doing with her donations? Why does it matter to you? By the way, our Shelter did not receive the money. The Animal Shelter Foundation however did receive a check in that amount. It must have slipped through your "Research"....
Peter Masloch
7:55 pm on Saturday, November 5, 2011
Speaking of Research, Miss "Research", let me fill you in with things that you probably wasn't told by your "new source". After the so called "Raven Rd. incident" Michelle made several things public and even a TV Station from Baltimore came down. Several things were made public, mostly it was about "happenings" at the Shelter. At that time the Shelter had unusual high kill rate. The public wasn't very happy about the informations that were made public and Dick DeVore put a stop on all euthanization. More people came forward to us (employees, former employees, former volunteers). We heard many extremely disturbing and horrible stories but it was decided to not make them public at that time. The Shelter Manager and a second person from management resigned and left. The Shelter then was left with only 2 employess and nobody to take care of the remaining animals. A volunteer program was created from one day to the next in order to take care of the animals. This was around middle of December 2010. Early on people tried to sabotage us and our work because of our "no kill philosophy". This was also the time when I started meeting with County officials. There were only a handful of people that I have ever shared all information with regarding the "old shelter". The County officials supported our efforts early on and so did the community. The donations we received were incredible.
Peter Masloch
8:07 pm on Saturday, November 5, 2011
While certain people still were trying to sabotage our efforts legally and illegally, we moved along pretty well. We had extremely good support from the County Government and the community. Sometime in April our Shelter Management software broke. We tried to find somebody to fix it but the company that made the software didn't even exist anymore. Right now we are in progress to get Petpoint up and running. Unfortunately we probably will not be able to import old records from the old software which explains some of the discrepancies in our statistics. We have to go through all papers in order to get a full and complete statistic.
Anyways, we did go to the commissioners meeting in order to encourage the County officials to hire a new shelter manager that has a no kill philosophy. Fortunately for us, they hired a shelter manager that came with that philosophy. Today, everybody working at our shelter values life more than anything. Every animal coming through our door has a right to live and to get a second chance. That is why we are "The Shelter of Hope". We do everything possible for every animal and sometimes we even make the impossible possible.Are we perfect? No, we are not. But we never give up on saving animals.
HarfordLassie
8:48 pm on Saturday, November 5, 2011
Gee Peter, considering who you have aligned with, if it were David Fang or Mary Leavens saying all this stuff instead of you, would you & HOPE be so understanding? It's not so much fun when a lot of facts are taken out of context and twisted around to build a case against someone, is it? Are you the white knight trying to save poor damsel Michelle? I don't recall you coming to anyone else's aid as she has insulted others, said things about them she has no clue about, or felt a need to tell the world what someone's profession is, as if that was somehow important. Double standard again? Well golly gee, David and Mary walked into a situation that was a mess too and they are straightening it out in the way they think is best, just like you. Can we give them some kudos and medals to put on their chest just like you too?
Honestly, I don't really care about Allegany or Charm City, or how you guys run things. If what you are doing works for your county and people are happy, then keep doing it. That's not the impression I get when you display so much anger against anyone who doesn't support you 100%, including Ms. McDaniel, but just like you really don't know what is happening at HSHC and feel a need to criticize, turnabout is fair play. Your world is not without problems either, despite the nirvana you paint about no-kill and TNR. If you and HOPE want to come into our county and make unfair allegations about HSHC, seems fair we return the favor, don't you agree?
Peter Masloch
8:51 pm on Saturday, November 5, 2011
Just another note to the "Research Person" about the cats. It is very common in many rural communities to utilize Farms and Barns for cats. We actually had people coming to us asking us for "Barn cats". Usually that are cats trapped by members of the community. Since you know so much about TNR due to your "research", you are also aware of the fact that you can not introduce a unlimited amount of cats to an existing cat colony. Unlike Harford County, we do not kill those cats and no, we don't have them at the Shelter either.
HarfordLassie
9:03 pm on Saturday, November 5, 2011
see below
Peter Masloch
9:11 pm on Saturday, November 5, 2011
I don't know where I have ever made any unfair allegations about or against HSHC? I also don't see a big difference between you and Michelle. Well yes, there is one difference. Michelle is a friend and I know her very well. Is she perfect? Probably not and neither are you.
Michelle Ingrodi
10:46 pm on Saturday, November 5, 2011
If it went into my bank account, I could see how that would make you think that. But it went into the rescue's bank account, and so far $4,000 of it has gone directly to vet bills. I pulled 18 very sick cats out of Baltimore County Animal Control two days ago and four of them are fighting for their lives. Would you like my vets number to verify.
Thank you, Joan, for your screenshot of suggesting that I am doing something illegal with this money. It fits in nicely with the suit against David Fang and Kimberly. The lawyers name is Peter Barry, and you will receive the same paperwork as the other two.
Your obsession with me is unfounded, unfair, and unhealthy. At some point I would like to find a way to pay myself, but it will not happen with $25,000. Before I got the money, I had to submit an outline of what it would be spent on, and I have followed it penny for penny. So yet again, Joan, you are making yourself look like a fool. I suggest you go walk your dog and take a breather, before you stroke out.
HarfordLassie
10:58 pm on Saturday, November 5, 2011
Peter, you said- "Sometime in April our Shelter Management software broke. We tried to find somebody to fix it but the company that made the software didn't even exist anymore. Right now we are in progress to get Petpoint up and running. Unfortunately we probably will not be able to import old records from the old software which explains some of the discrepancies in our statistics. We have to go through all papers in order to get a full and complete statistic. "
but Michelle had a different story-
Michelle Ingrodi
12:39pm on Saturday, November 5, 2011
Joan, you can look all you want at the Allegany statistics from 2010. I doubt they're correct because the old director shredded everything to save her ass.
Which is correct?
Michelle Ingrodi
10:58 pm on Saturday, November 5, 2011
Oh, I forgot to mention...the rescue is not "owned". In fact, there are actually three different parts to it, all managed by different boards. I know you attempted to gain this info the other day via your email disguise which was a huge fail, but seriously, if you'd just email me and ask for it, I would have told you.
I am a 501c3. I have a board of directors that really don't like you, one is the executive director of a shelter in Maryland, one is a volunteer at Allegany, one is a Hopkins business professor, one is an author of animal behavior books, and one is just someone who saves a crapload of animals.
I also do have the proper kennel licenses to run a rescue out of my home. Officer Kelly visits here regularly because she and I are working on a neglect case on my block. Baltimore City does not have animal limits for approved 501c3 rescues with kennel licenses because we assist the shelter with the big cases.
I have insurance, provided by my sister's fiance's mom, for both my home, life, and business.
Also, how dare you complain that I posted someone's occupation on here, when all you people have done is attack me. You've posted every single detail that you can muster up to make me appear like the bad guy. You pull up ancient reports from a paper reporter who knew nothing about the harmony of volunteers. He interview people who were against Peter and myself, who advocated FOR killing, but yeah...twist it to whatever you need.
Stacy Rawlings
11:05 pm on Saturday, November 5, 2011
Michelle, I don't care that you posted my profession, I've come to expect behavior like that from people like you.
Michelle Ingrodi
11:07 pm on Saturday, November 5, 2011
What you do not understand, is that Allegany doesn't even have a model right now. They are simply making do until they can get a new shelter built. When you all get to see what they work with, you'll be shocked. It's a teeny, tiny building... that was never meant to hold animals for more than 3 days. It was designed for animal control, not compassion or life saving. So yes, it is overcrowded, disease can spread easily, and it often seems like a total cluster fart in there. But that makes it even more evident that a shelter with absolutely nothing can do what a bigger facility cannot, or isn't willing to. And for you to take what you know nothing about, what you've never visited, what you've only read snippets about, and attempt to apply it to HSHC to gain ground, is one of the most unintelligent things that has come out of you.
Your semi-sincere email to HOPE was laughable.
One last thing, I am not angry because you think you're defeating HOPE with your half assed attempts at research or showing us up. I'm frustrated with a woman who doesn't know anything about the matter, and is attempting to derail a group that is busting their ass for change. Then you claim that your intentions are not against this group, yet you stalk the members around the internet posting links to this blog. Get some sleep Joan, this isn't your fight. You keep bringing up things like No Kill and TNR that nobody even cares much about! There's a MUCH bigger picture you're totally missing!
HarfordLassie
11:27 pm on Saturday, November 5, 2011
Michelle, do you have any idea how paranoid and self serving you sound? Not to mention the fiction you make up along the way. Maybe you should consider taking some of the money you spend on attorneys and see a therapist instead. You aren't even capable of rational discussion. Have a nice life.
Kimberly Kanely- Bearsch
1:54 pm on Monday, November 7, 2011
Wow Michelle, you don't have a job but can afford a lawyer to sue me for "libel"??? I would have thought your expensive lawyer would have told you by now that it is not "Libel" if it is the truth!
HarfordLassie
9:02 pm on Saturday, November 5, 2011
You know what Peter, HOPE can run with a TNR program anytime they want to. All they have to do is file the non-profit papers, let the public know their organization's mission is to save feral cats and round up support and caretakers. They can go for grants, get donations, and I bet once it's up and running Harford County would be more than happy to send those nuisance cat calls over to HOPE instead of utilizing animal control and freeing them for other animals. HOPE can trap the cats themselves, have them fixed and microchip them as being owned by HOPE and work with whoever about releasing them. Then if they ever wind up at HSHC a microchip will say the cat, feral or not, belongs to them and they will be called to come get THEIR cat. I'm pretty sure there is a law that the shelter can't euthanize an animal when it has a microchip, unless the owner fails to claim them. Seems like it's a way HOPE could put their words into action, save lives and free the shelter to concentrate on programs to get more domestic animals adopted and more public ed on responsible ownership and spay/neuter. They might save enough to fund that vet and behaviorist to save even more. Seems like a win/win. I think HOPE should go for it since they have the background, knowledge and network.
Michelle Ingrodi
11:09 pm on Saturday, November 5, 2011
Why don't you do it since you're such an expert now? You keep bringing up TNR like it's the major factor here, and it's making you look stupid.
Michelle Ingrodi
11:16 pm on Saturday, November 5, 2011
For the record, Allegany is not No Kill. Have you bothered to ask why, or would you rather blame it on what you think you know? It's because the county knows they cannot handle the intake in that tiny building. The call themselves a shelter of HOPE for that reason, because they will do the best they can until they get a better structure. They absolutely cannot use the phrase "no kill" for legal reasons. If someone were to bring an animal there thinking it's no kill, and the animal were to be put down, they could be sued.
Also, Joan, you have to realize that there were NO records for the shelter for three months out of this year. Volunteers who had no idea what they were doing, other than saving lives, ran the place with the help of a compassionate County Executive. When the new director took over, he found that the old director not only shredded everything, but sabotaged the computer system. So don't you dare take your "figures" and use them to talk trash about a subject you don't know the whole story on. And shame on you for believing Directors at HSHC who are feeding you BS, and then making up lies to seek revenge on those doing good work: "If you and HOPE want to come into our county and make unfair allegations about HSHC, seems fair we return the favor, don't you agree?" Absolutely disgusting.
Kimberly Kanely- Bearsch
2:03 pm on Monday, November 7, 2011
You are the biggest Hypocrite Michelle! Alleganey is referred to as "No Kill" all over HOPE. I am so tired of reading your crap. Don't you have a a lawsuit to file or cat to rescue. Your time would be spent doing what you do best... Oh wait maybe spewing your crap all over the place is what you do best!
HarfordLassie
11:39 pm on Saturday, November 5, 2011
And there you have it sports fans! Without Michelle and Peter to tell Harford county the truth about our horrible shelter management that kills and tortures animals for pleasure, we'd all be like Stepford wives after leaving a meeting at HSHC, brainwashed and doomed. NOT!! I think it's obvious that some of these folks like lots of drama and hearing themselves talking about how much they "know" and how important they are. Thanks for joining us.
Peter Masloch
5:30 am on Sunday, November 6, 2011
You seem to like it too or why would you try to follow me on Twitter?
Karl Schuub
8:24 am on Sunday, November 6, 2011
Joan: You've done us all a huge favor both in doing due diligence regarding your communications with the shelter management and taking the mask of these single minded activists hellbent on shoving their belief structures on everyone even if unwise...if anyone here in Harford County had the slightest doubt about what these people are all about it's been certainly exposed. Hopefully we can put them on ignore allowing the rest of us to move forward with ideas that might work and help improve the lives of homeless animals in Harford County.
Kimberly Kanely- Bearsch
2:04 pm on Monday, November 7, 2011
Well said Karl.
HarfordLassie
1:10 pm on Sunday, November 6, 2011
Underneath all the anger & bizarre comments I think they really do care about the animals but for some reason can't accept that their way is not the only way. Any criticism of a program is taken as personal criticism, possibly because that's the way they operate, by criticizing the management at HSHC, and other places where they have tried to establish their agenda. Harford County is not the only place they have inserted themselves into a local issue involving animals and shelters. They flock to any place where a small group wants to establish no-kill and TNR & call for resignations of shelter management that don't agree. I applaud their passion for their cause but they have to bring something else to the table other than anger, insults and threats for any rational person to consider any program and have to be willing to discuss the pros/cons. 1 size does not fit all. I wish them success with their own rescues/shelters, & to HOPE in establishing a TNR program separate from HSHC, because it is about the animals, right?
IMO HSHC has had enough of experimenting with no-kill programs that only made things worse. The current management of HSHC has been tasked with the cleanup of those years and building a new, better alternative. I believe they are not only on the right path for Harford County but have already improved conditions for both animals and employees, programs & secured funding for a new shelter. Not bad at all considering what they started with!
Karl Schuub
2:45 pm on Sunday, November 6, 2011
This target and attack mentality is all by design - one need only log onto one of the websites supporting TNR activities. For instance glancing at Alley Cat Allies you find a blurb about a cat licensing requirement being considered in Charles County; it states it's a threat to thier TNR activities and it may in fact be - the call is out and I'm sure all these same people on this blog have flooded the Charles County council under different names and in multiples hoping to make it seem like there's a groundswell of public revulsion. My question would be do you really care about cats if a simple act such as requiring people be serious enough about owning a cat that they'd take a simple step like licensing thier animal cause such hysteria if you really cared about the cat? You can put your efforts on the front end or the back end...either educating the public or feeding wild cats. Makes far more sense to me to reduce the number of kittens by making cat ownership as serious an undertaking as dog ownership and that means proper licensing and neutering. How many times have we seen or heard of people moving out of a rental unit and leaving the cat behind? This twisted notion that cats can do for themselves therefore it isn't cruel to abandon them in empty lots is no less irresponsible than leaving a dog in a hot car in summer.
Randy Daniels
4:10 pm on Sunday, November 6, 2011
Here is a list of open admission Animal Shelter that have no kill status:
LETS TAKE A REAL LOOK AT THESE
Austin, TX -TRYING to go no kill by 10-11
projected cost to implement:
1,047,225. annually for adoption partnership through Austin Pets Alive
106,289.67 annually for utilitiy costs for all buildings and kennels (7+)
78,446.61 TNR medical expenses
105,000. annually for Corrdinator and behaviorist to be hired
382,000 for 2 mobile spay/neuter clinics
240,000. for a free spay day
65,000 3 annual spay days
To fully implement this program will cost the city of Austin 2,023,960. For the first year
Taken directly from http://cityofaustin.org/health/pets/implement_plan.htm
Randy Daniels
4:11 pm on Sunday, November 6, 2011
Benzie County, MI
Mission Statement – To balance the public health, safety, and welfare needs of the citizens and domestic animals in Benzie County by responsibly and humanely enforcing animal related laws; provide nourishment and a safe environment for impounded domestic animals; educate the public about responsible companion animal ownership; investigate cases where animal care is inadequate; and find new loving homes for homeless animals at the shelter. We understand that warehousing animals for the sake of saving them from humane euthanasia is not in the public’s or animal’s best interest. We know it is not possible to save all animals in Benzie County. We are committed to the highest performance standards, ethical conduct, truthfulness, and moral behavior in our work with people and animals.
***Doesnt sound like no kill to me
http://www.benzieco.net/dept_animal_control.htm
Berkeley, CA
Hey, Its Berkeley but yes they are trying to run a no kill.. last years numbers
starting numbers 53 dogs 16 cats total 69
Intake 884 dogs 667 cats total 1551
Adoptions 308 204 512
Outgoing Transfers 159 363 449
Return to Owner 360 63 423
Euthanasia 55 38 93
ending numbers 55 15 70
http://www.ci.berkeley.ca.us/ContentDisplay.aspx?id=9724
Randy Daniels
4:11 pm on Sunday, November 6, 2011
Boulder, CO
*** Nothing about being a no kill on their website no Maddies fund numbers
http://www.bouldercolorado.gov/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=13981&Itemid=4716
Brown County, IN
Private not an Open Admission county run facility
Has an Agreement with Animal control board to foster and adopt out
http://www.bchumane.org/about/history.html
Charlottesville, VA
The Charlottesville-Albemarle SPCA A Private limited admission shelter
http://www.caspca.org/index.htm
Chippewa County, MI
*** NOT A no Kill shelter see their owner release form
“The decision on whether to put the pet into the adoption program or humanely put to sleep (euthanize), may be made upon arrival. This decision is based on breed, temperament, health, age, history and room available.”
www.chippewacountymi.gov/PDF_Documents/Owner_Release.pdf
Randy Daniels
4:12 pm on Sunday, November 6, 2011
Copper Country, MI
***NOT a county run facility quotes from their website
The shelter receives animals from animal control and private citizens. Euthanasia will be considered per veterinarian recommendation based on health, temperament and quality of life and will only be performed by a veterinarian.
http://www.cchumanesociety.com/about-cchs/
Duluth, MN
***Animal Allies Humane Society private NOT county run partners with the county so they are limited admission
http://www.animalshelter.org/shelters/Animal_Allies_Humane_Society_rId2471_rS_pC.html
Fluvanna County, VA
***The Fluvanna SPCA is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.
http://www.fspca.org/home.html
Grosse Ile, MI
T.A.I.L.S. (The Animals' Island League Shelter) is a non-profit group organized in 1996 for the sole purpose of providing care for the homeless animals of Grosse Ile. Although the Animal Shelter is owned and operated by the Township, we, as stewards of the Grosse Ile Animal Shelter, are dedicated to providing the additional financial support needed to make our homeless animal friends happy, healthy, and adoptable.
http://www.grosseileanimalshelter.com/tails/index.htm
Randy Daniels
4:12 pm on Sunday, November 6, 2011
Hastings, MN
Animal Ark
Founded in 1977, we are a 501(c)3 non-profit Minnesota corporation.
***Not an open admission county run facility
http://www.animalarkshelter.org/
Kansas City, KS
The Kansas City, Kansas Animal Control is a Unit of the Kansas City, Kansas Police Department Community Support Services Division. The shelter provides humane care for animals impounded until they are returned or reclaimed by their owner, adopted to a new family, or humanely euthanized.
http://www.kckpd.org/Services/AnimalControl
In 2009 we partnered with The Humane Society of Greater Kansas City, volunteers, no-kill rescues and shelters, and breed rescue groups. The Ray of Hope program significantly reduced euthanasia in our shelter to under 1% in 2010, down from 70% in 2007. Our partnership includes transfers of pets to no-kill groups, spaying and neutering of all of those pets, weekend satellite events, and distributing information on low-cost spaying and neutering to the KCK community.
http://hsgkc.org/index.html
*** So the county is shipping them off to other organizations sound familiar? until all of those are full
Randy Daniels
4:12 pm on Sunday, November 6, 2011
King George County, VA
The Animal Control Division of the Sheriff's Office has (2) full time and (3) part time employees. They operate a county pound for the purpose of impounding or harboring seized, stray, homeless, abandoned or unwanted animals.
http://www.king-george.va.us/county-offices/animal-control/animal-control.php
King George Animal rescue League Is KGARL the same as the King George county pound?
No, the King George Animal Rescue League is a private, non-profit organization, whereas the King George county pound is a government agency, funded by the state of Virginia
http://www.kgarl.org/index.php
***Not an open admission county facility
Lynchburg, VA
***Lynchburg Animal Control is county run HOWEVER
The Lynchburg Humane Society
***They want to go no kill by 2015 currently still euthanising
http://www.lynchburghumanesociety.org/index.php
Randy Daniels
4:13 pm on Sunday, November 6, 2011
Marquette, MI
Where Our Animals Come From:
Owner Surrendered 1,180
Stray 539
Transfers from other
Shelters & Impounds 143
Wild 0
Total Incoming 1,862
Where Our Animals Go:
Adopted 1,342
Returned to Owner 265
Transfers to other
Shelters & Rescues 36
Euthanized* 100
Total Outgoing 1,743
http://upaws.org/aboutus.php click 2011 annual report
*** Transfer to a shelter that does euthanize so they say they dont euthanize for space
Otsego County, MI
On January 1, 1999, the Donald Reece Animal Shelter became the first No Kill municipal shelter in Michigan. The Board of Commissioners officially adopted this no kill resolution on May 11, 1999.
*** Props to them.. Id like to see some monetary numbers
http://www.otsegocountymi.gov/our-history--21/
Randy Daniels
4:13 pm on Sunday, November 6, 2011
Reno, NV
What is the current operating budget of Regional Animal Services?
The current operating budget for RAS is $4.8 million annually
Is Washoe County Regional Animal Services a No-Kill Facility?
Washoe County Regional Animal Services is not a “no-kill” facility and has never ascribed to that philosophy.
Washoe County is a “pet-friendly” facility and does whatever it can to minimize the number of animals that are euthanized. We have one of the best track records in the U.S. in that regard. The Nevada Humane Society (NHS) follows a “no-kill” philosophy, and Washoe County maintains a close working relationship with NHS, so the practice is sometimes assumed to apply to Washoe County, even though it does not. It is important that we continue to be clear about our individual philosophies and how they might differ
http://www.co.washoe.nv.us/
*** Follow the Animal Services Revenue link in the Announcements section
Seagoville, TX
http://www.seagoville.us/index.aspx?nid=60
We need to approach the open admission city no-kill shelters with the same sense of urgency as those that put out euthanasia lists on a regular basis.
http://pawsitivelytexas.com/seagoville-animal-shelter/
*** Sounds like this is a private shelter too.. not the county run facility
Randy Daniels
4:13 pm on Sunday, November 6, 2011
Shelby County, KY
Our Animal Shelter needs your help!
They are currently at full capacity and are in need of the following items:
http://www.shelbycountykentucky.com/Animal/animal.html
Shelby County is the first NO KILL county in Kentucky.
http://www.shelbycountynokillmission.org/
***Congrats even though they are fiacing the same problems as ACAC
Terre Haute, IN
THe Terre Haute Humane Society is a private non-profit 501c3 organization.
http://www.animalshelter.org/shelters/Terre_Haute_Humane_Society_rId7067_rS_pC.html
** A private non municipal group. Animal control is run as a part of the police departments Environmental Protection Division
http://www.terrehaute.in.gov/departments/pd/support-services/environmental-protection-division
Randy Daniels
4:14 pm on Sunday, November 6, 2011
Tompkins County, NY
On August 28, 2007, WTVH-TV reported that "The Tompkins County SPCA has too many animals to handle." They noted that the shelter had to close for several days and that appointments must be made to surrender animals.[38]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-kill_shelter
Randy Daniels
4:14 pm on Sunday, November 6, 2011
Williamsburg, VA
Animal control is actually part of James City Police Department
http://www.jccegov.com/police/animal-control.html
Williamson County, TX
The Williamson County Regional Animal Shelter (WCRAS) is located on approximately five acres on the Inner Loop in Georgetown just to the east of the entrance to the county’s Juvenile Services building. The shelter is a collaborative effort between the county and participating cities of Round Rock, Cedar Park, Leander and Hutto.
http://pets.wilco.org/
Our goal is create a no-kill community for Williamson County. There is an on-going collaborative effort between several organizations to meet that goal. Those organizations include our shelter, the Williamson County Humane Society, the Georgetown Animal Shelter and the Central Texas SPCA.
Because the Williamson County Regional Animal Shelter is an open door facility for our partnering entities, we take every animal that is presented to us. Some of these animals are simply not able to be adopted becuase of agression and behavior. However, it is our goal to be able to adopt or rescue out every adoptable animal and in the future, more of the animals with treatable illnesses or behavior issues that can be rehabilitated. This will take community involvement and dedication to achieve this goal.
http://pets.wilco.org/AboutUs/FAQs/tabid/199/Default.aspx
*** The municipal facility is not a no kill facility
Randy Daniels
4:14 pm on Sunday, November 6, 2011
Failed attempts
In 2008, the Humane Society of Tacoma and Pierce County, in Tacoma, Washington, backed away from its no-kill commitment, acknowledging the difficulties encountered in trying to keep animals alive. In announcing their decision, the shelter president stated “that because we are an open shelter that will accept every animal that comes to us, regardless of its medical or behavior problems, true ‘no-kill’ status will never be a reality.” The shelter has now switched from no-kill to “Counting Down to Zero”, a coordinated effort to reduce euthanasia.[65]
Forgotten Felines, a Canadian no-kill shelter for cats in Delta, British Columbia, was closed following an October 2008 investigation by the BC Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals which found 51 cats suffering from starvation, dehydration, infection, and illness. Five cats died because of illness, 36 were adopted and the remainder were euthanized. The former director was charged with animal cruelty.[66]
In 2009, the Newfoundland and Labrador, Canada provincial government and the town of Stephenville began negotiations to close their no-kill animal shelter, claiming that upwards of 100 dogs and cats with diseases or behavioral problems were suffering severe neglect. Media quoted the town's mayor as stating that animals cannot be humanely stored indefinitely. The animals in the shelter will be evaluated by veterinarians but will most likely be euthanized.[67]
Randy Daniels
4:17 pm on Sunday, November 6, 2011
A no-kill policy led to a dispute between the Toronto Humane Society and the Ontario Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals in 2009, with the OSPCA revoking the THS' credentials for several months while it conducted an investigation.[68] Several staff and officers with the THS were arrested, although all of the charges were eventually dropped.[68]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-kill_shelter
*** OH I love Peters attempts to figure out who I am And he forgot to mention the fact that he is now a paid employee!
*** THE NKN uses a scorched earth policy of slamming anyone who does not agree with them 100% just google Nathan WInograd or No Kill nation and see all the negative sites there are out ther
HarfordLassie
8:50 pm on Sunday, November 6, 2011
Actually I'm finding it very interesting that Peter first introduced himself as the person directly responsible for turning Allegany into a no-kill shelter
Seems he was just one of a group of people that started a group sort of like HOPE, that branched into two groups, that took the emotional plea to the public to get support for what they wanted. And it turns out the shelter he claimed is no-kill isn't really no kill at all.
Peter Masloch
9:04 pm on Sunday, November 6, 2011
Do some more research, Joan. Maybe one of this days you will get it right lol
By the way, about Twitter, are you going to answer my question or not?
Randy Daniels
4:20 pm on Sunday, November 6, 2011
As for the former manager at ACAC She was harassed at work, home, on the phone. Her kids were harassed at school. Her home address was published. That is the type of people that advocate this "movement" I believe you can figure out who I am referring to
HarfordLassie
8:27 pm on Sunday, November 6, 2011
Gee, where have I seen this before? Oh right, on the HOPE page about HSHC
Peter Masloch
9:00 pm on Sunday, November 6, 2011
John, why don't you tell us some names of people who did this so that we know?
HarfordLassie
9:46 pm on Sunday, November 6, 2011
Time for Peter to take his own advice- "just because you repeat a lie 50 times doesn't mean it automatically becomes the truth"
Peter Masloch
9:53 pm on Sunday, November 6, 2011
Speaking of 50 times, Joan, are you going to answer why you was trying to follow me on Twitter last night? I could almost think you was trying to snoop on me but of course you would not do that, wouldn't you?
Randy Daniels
4:21 pm on Sunday, November 6, 2011
the former manager DID NOT sabotage anything or destroy records when she left. There were problems with the system long before that and she could not get them addressed
Randy Daniels
4:25 pm on Sunday, November 6, 2011
Call BARCS direct and ask about Charm City Rescue and Baltimore Animal Control.. DO NOT take anything she says at face value
Randy Daniels
4:30 pm on Sunday, November 6, 2011
As for the ACAC closing there have been several some were specifically for disease while others were for painting and sealing of kennels thanks to inept installers when the building was built. Currently they DO have panleuc and possibly parvo also
Sonja Hunn
7:01 pm on Sunday, November 6, 2011
Hi, Randy. I am a member of HOPE, and I'd like to weigh in on a couple of points AND make an offer, which I'm sure Joan will appreciate. First, I find using wikipedia as a reference highly questionable. Anybody can put anything on wikipedia, and I'm sure you're aware of that. Second, some no-kill shelters are private and some are open admission, and nobody ever said anything different than that. Third, you make reference to something that happened in Tompkins, NY in August of 2007. That's four and a half years ago, and Tompkins is still up and running and still no-kill. Fourth, you comment that in Marquette, MI, they transfer animals to another shelter where they can be killed. I had this comment on HOPE's page at some point. So, you know what I did? I emailed the shelter directly and asked if that was a fact. Guess what? It wasn't. They did use space in a kill shelter for a couple of weeks when they needed room, but they got the animals back. So, here's where my offer comes in. Starting tomorrow, I am going to personally contact each of the shelters that you mention above and tell them what was said. When I get their responses, whether favorable to no-kill or not, I am going to post them on this blog. This is what Joan would do, but she won't do it this time because she wants to believe you. But I know she'll be proud of me for doing it.
HarfordLassie
8:23 pm on Sunday, November 6, 2011
Where is the proof that Tompkins only used temporary space and the animals were returned?
Sonja Hunn
9:02 pm on Sunday, November 6, 2011
Read it again, Joan. I wasn't talking about Tompkins.
HarfordLassie
9:43 pm on Sunday, November 6, 2011
Sorry Sonja, my error, Marquette, MI. Where's the proof?
Karl Schuub
7:10 pm on Sunday, November 6, 2011
The fact that Sonja will personally spend all day on a Monday calling long distance all over the country is just another fine example of the obsessive nature of the cat people...downright scary. Other people get up walk thier dogs, go to work and get back home well after dark, but Sonja will call all over the country to dispel someone elses links. Sonja when you call these people and ask them thier attitudes towards no-kill do you think they'll tell you they prefer to kill animals? It's a waste of your time.
Sonja Hunn
7:21 pm on Sunday, November 6, 2011
Karl. I have two dogs. And I'm not going to waste my time ... you may waste my time, I realize. Ask Joan if she doesn't think that's the right thing to do. Randy has some bad info. Why did he list Chippewa as a no-kill? Beats me, because Chippewa is not on any no-kill list that I can find. I'm just doing my research.
HarfordLassie
8:17 pm on Sunday, November 6, 2011
Try this Sonja-
Chippewa County, Michigan, is on the eastern edge of the Upper Peninsula. It has about 40,000 residents, including the county seat of Sault Ste. Marie. The Chippewa County Animal Shelter used to be contracted out to private management, and at that time it was high-kill. After local citizens got involved and asked for change, the county decided to take the shelter under its management. They hired a new shelter director, Holly Henderson, who instituted a no-kill program and turned things around.
http://www.no-killnews.com/?p=1086
Randy Daniels
7:18 pm on Sunday, November 6, 2011
First of all most of those links are from the shelter sites themselves, or the municipal facility in charge of animal control. These responses I posted were in a direct response to Peters use of them as open admission no kill municipal facilities which is what I was refuting. The main reason for doing this is to show the slavering obsession with the leaders of the NKN the followers have... they will just repost anything without doing their own research like I have. IF you notice I commend the few that have been able to do it to this point.
Sonja Hunn
7:30 pm on Sunday, November 6, 2011
So, Randy, you're saying that Peter said Chippewa and Benzie County, MI were no-kill shelters? (I'm not picking on MI, it's just that it was clear from the descriptions that they weren't no-kill, so I looked them up on no-kill nation's list.) Did he put up a link?
HarfordLassie
8:24 pm on Sunday, November 6, 2011
Try this Sonja-
Chippewa County, Michigan, is on the eastern edge of the Upper Peninsula. It has about 40,000 residents, including the county seat of Sault Ste. Marie. The Chippewa County Animal Shelter used to be contracted out to private management, and at that time it was high-kill. After local citizens got involved and asked for change, the county decided to take the shelter under its management. They hired a new shelter director, Holly Henderson, who instituted a no-kill program and turned things around.
http://www.no-killnews.com/?p=1086
Peter Masloch
8:55 pm on Sunday, November 6, 2011
Thank you, John, for posting all this information. I actually copy and pasted some of it and e-mailed it to some other people. But here is the thing, John, just because you repeat a lie 50 times doesn't mean it automatically becomes the truth. But I'm pretty sure you will find people here that believe you and that is good that they believe you ;-)
By the way, John, why don't you tell us what your mom did this summer in VA? Oh yes, she volunteered in an animal shelter. And guess what, it was a No Kill shelter and she told me all about it. She actually was really proud to volunteer there and I'm glad she did.
HarfordLassie
9:41 pm on Sunday, November 6, 2011
Who cares what his mother did this summer? Is he not entitled to an opinion of his own? At least he's giving links to support most of what he says and Sonja has yet to concede he was right about Chippewa.
HarfordLassie
8:14 pm on Sunday, November 6, 2011
I have a question Sonja. Why is HOPE unwilling to have these discussions on your Facebook page? Are you that afraid that your "facts" will get torn up in front of your followers? Or are you afraid people will see some of your more outgoing members having emotional meltdowns and going into a tailspin? The HOPE page is always talking about transparency and why won't HSHC do this or that, but HOPE runs a page that is nothing but one sided propaganda written by a group of people, most who don't want to be publicly identified, in fear of what exactly?.
Peter Masloch
8:46 pm on Sunday, November 6, 2011
Why don't you create your own Facebook page and we discuss it there? By the way, you didn't answer my question from this morning regarding trying to follow me on Twitter late last night. Why would you do such a thing if you obviously don't like my philosophy?
Sonja Hunn
9:08 pm on Sunday, November 6, 2011
The HOPE page is not for debating. It is for collaborating. If you had stated your case once, you would still be there. But you stated your case many times and no progress was being made. And certainly, no collaboration was happening. No one is afraid of the truth. That's why I'm contacting all the shelters. I actually want to know the truth.
HarfordLassie
9:08 pm on Sunday, November 6, 2011
Ah, here comes the knight in shining armor again to save the damsel in distress.
The burden of proof always lies with the accuser Peter. HOPE should know that, since one of the members is a lawyer. I will remind you that HOPE is making all these allegations against HSHC with zero proof. HOPE is also the group advocating HSHC change direction of the new management to follow your god Nathan's plan,
Seriously, the HOPE page is making a LOT of allegations about individual people with absolutely zero proof. Your lawyer friend should know that being anonymous online is a fantasy, since the digital footprints lead directly to a specific computer, and if it's illegal in the real world, it's illegal on line- things such as libel, slander and defamation.
This is the group that wants to force the direction of HSHC ? .
Sonja Hunn
9:17 pm on Sunday, November 6, 2011
See, Joan. All you want to do is antagonize. We can prove every single thing we've said, and we have made completely sure of that right from the start. I'm seeing you much more clearly now. Clearly, it is time for me to write a blog.
HarfordLassie
9:19 pm on Sunday, November 6, 2011
No offense Sonja but I was challenged to find places no-kill and TNR didn't work by your friend Peter and when I did suddenly "no progress was being made". Can I ask why your group keeps coming here? No progress is being made here either that benefits HOPE. If anything, the meltdowns by several of your supporters has really had the opposite effect of making HOPE a viable force in Harford county.
Did you ever notice it's the same people all the time talking on that page, a very small group, the same ones that came here. Anyone else who questioned or disagreed has been removed. The only collaboration going on is to keep the page as a source of propaganda.
You go call all the shelters and ask them for "the truth" and then you come back and tell us why anyone should believe after just one phone call that you weren't just blindsided and taken in by smooth talkers? Isn't that the way it works? I spent the entire afternoon at HCHS, on the premises, and dug into everything, saw everything, and that wasn't good enough for HOPE, but your one phone call to a shelter will be the defining information? You've got to be kidding.
Peter Masloch
9:23 pm on Sunday, November 6, 2011
As far I know, Joan, the HOPE Facebook page is a private page and I'm almost certain they have the right to choose who is member of that page and who not. But of course, I also could be wrong.
By the way, Joan, are you going to answer my question regarding Twitter last night?
HarfordLassie
9:27 pm on Sunday, November 6, 2011
Sonja, you're starting to sound like Michelle. First rule of radicals- when you cannot win the debate on merit - vilify your opponent. Let me know when you want to discuss facts that can be verified.
HarfordLassie
9:29 pm on Sunday, November 6, 2011
Peter, EVERY Facebook page is public. You can limit who posts but not who views. If you want privacy, try a closed group.
Sonja Hunn
9:41 pm on Sunday, November 6, 2011
Joan, I think you have a serious reading comprehension problem. You get more wrong than you get right, and that's very puzzling since the words are right in front of you. Your behavior is seriously clinical. I came making an offer. You don't want the offer, that's okay with me. If you don't want me on your blog, that's okay with me, too. I'm not sticking around so you can question me about superficial, inconsequential things because you think that makes you look like a hero. I'm pretty sure there are others on this blog who can see right through you. So, Randy, if you are interested in continuing the discussion, feel free to message me on my FB page. Maybe WE can get to what's real and what's not. It surely isn't going to happen here. I'm done.
Peter Masloch
9:43 pm on Sunday, November 6, 2011
Well Joan, last I looked the HOPE Facebook page had about 800 followers. Seems to me there is some kind of interest from some people in what HOPE is doing, don't you think? And while Facebook is somewhat public, Facebook page administrators still have the right to decide who can see and post and who not ;-)
By the way, Joan, are you going to answer my question regarding Twitter?
HarfordLassie
10:00 pm on Sunday, November 6, 2011
How many people out of that 800 are actively posting Peter? Maybe 10, over and over? Too funny. That kid that did the "Leave Britney Alone" video got 41,621,543 views. I'm sure you can drum them up, You got over 1,000 for your petition for Allegany, http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/r/ Of course a lot of them don't live there, but so what.
Peter Masloch
10:13 pm on Sunday, November 6, 2011
Why does it bother you that only 10 people posting and the other 790 just reading? Just because somebody is reading a Book doesn't automatically mean that person also has to write a Book.
By the way, Joan, are you going to answer my question regarding Twitter last night?
HarfordLassie
10:36 pm on Sunday, November 6, 2011
I truly wish we were able to have a civilized, mature debate here but that doesn't seem possible when the people who want to force an agenda in Harford county want to ignore the failures and only criticize other people and other organizations. It was intriguing at first to begin to learn about "no-kill" and "TNR" as possible options for Harford county. With the exception of TNR, HCHS is actually ahead of where many of these no-kill shelters that have been used as examples. Those other shelters that said they would go "no-kill" are all being allowed years to get there, excuse away problems because the buildings need to be replaced, get to turn away animals, but for some reason HCHS's new management is not being allowed those same conditions.
We have gotten a good picture of the blueprint that is being used by the no-kill movement. It always includes demonizing and ousting the current management because Nathan, the god, says so. With the record David Fang and Mary Leavens are building at HCHS, it's not going to be so easy. They are building partnerships and support and taking HCHS to the next level, without Nathan's help, and in spite of those who wish to take them down.
Kimberly Kanely- Bearsch
2:25 pm on Monday, November 7, 2011
Isn't that the truth.
I could never figure out why the HOPE members were so hell bent on dragging the HSHC through the mud and not give them the chance to change.
So happy you did the research Joan. Thanks for a little normalcy here!
Randy Daniels
12:24 am on Monday, November 7, 2011
Peter, or should I say Pit, as you are known in other circles, My posts are directly from the municipal animal control sites, OR from the private organizations directly involved WITH links to their sites. I dont see you posting anything but the mad ramblings of a plagarizing lawyer. The accusations and attacks were the same thing used at ACAC with NO PROOF EVER VERIFIED by anyone. If things were SO bad why were charges never brought... because nothing she was accused of ever happened
Peter Masloch
5:31 am on Monday, November 7, 2011
John, if you really think that a 86% kill rate was "not SO bad" than I don't even want to know what you believe is bad. That was not an animal shelter, it was a Slaughterhouse. Besides, I don't need to proof anything to YOU. When we showed the County Government how many animals died in that Shelter every day for no reason they almost got a heart attack.
You can call my lawyer friend whatever you want because it really doesn't matter. By the way, he just was featured in the CS Monitor ;-)
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Making-a-difference/2011/1031/Ryan-Clinton-wants-to-make-animal-shelters-no-kill-zones
Karl Schuub
7:44 am on Monday, November 7, 2011
There are no statistics coming out of anyone involved in no-kill or TNR that are believable...none of you appear to have any sort of ability to be rational and are so zealous in your belief system that in no way is it even about the animals anymore. Like peace protestors throwing rocks through windows you all fail to see the unfortunate irony in your demands - that the ultimate result would be thousands of animals shoved together starving to death. There is no facility out there nor available monies, nor public tolerance of housing the millions of animals you say you'd like to save. Save to what; for who, and where? If you run out of room inside there's always the outside - that's sort of where TNR comes in I guess. It's nothing but hoarding and it's about you and your own internal issues and has nothing to do with really caring about animals.
Karl Schuub
8:00 am on Monday, November 7, 2011
There are no statistics coming out of anyone involved in no-kill or TNR that are believable...none of you appear to have any sort of ability to be rational and are so zealous in your belief system that in no way is it even about the animals anymore. Like peace protestors throwing rocks through windows you all fail to see the unfortunate irony in your actions and demands - that the ultimate result would be thousands of animals shoved together starving to death. There is no facility out there nor available monies, nor public tolerance of housing the millions of animals you say you'd like to save. Save to what; for who, and where? If you run out of room inside there's always the outside - that's sort of where TNR comes in I guess. It's nothing but hoarding and it's about you and your own internal issues and has nothing to do with really caring about animals.
HarfordLassie
12:24 pm on Monday, November 7, 2011
Part 1-
According to Nathan J. Winograd, "over 23 million Americans looking to add a new pet to their households every year and only 3,000,000 being killed but for a home, the facts simply do not support the widespread, but now thoroughly disproven notion that there are too many animals and not enough homes. We are suffering from a marketing share problem, which is unquestioningly the fault of shelters."
A "marketing share" problem? Marketing is a business concept of how to position your "product" to make it attractive to consumers and make them want to buy it. This means products should be displayed attractively and to make your products available at as many locations as possible where potential consumers will purchase them. Brand loyalty is also a marketing term that means consumers have faith in your products and continue to purchase and recommend your product to friends.. Through that you sell more products and gain more "share" of sales that exist within basic supply/demand economic principles. In Nathan's world, the "products" are animals that wind up in shelters. Nathan believes animals in shelters are put to death because shelter management don't know how to "market" their "products" to sell more of them. They aren't creating a "demand" for their "product"- in this case, animals.
HarfordLassie
12:26 pm on Monday, November 7, 2011
Part 2-
Nathan markets his "no-kill equation" much like PETA and HSUS market their organizations, with horrible photos of suffering and dead animals, with stories of animal shelters that bury animals alive, that use animals for target practice and basicly torture animals. He uses shock value to sell his "no-kill equation" to turn around shelter operations. Let's be honest here, what animal lover would not be horrified at what he presents on his page? Who among us wouldn't jump on the bandwagon to end this? Only a hardened heart could look at his page and not agree we need to put an end to such horrors. Do those shelters exist? Unfortunately there are some shelters like that. There are also way too many puppy mills throughout the United States operating legally with the same, or worse, conditions, and tons of dead and dying dogs, but Nathan's hot button is shelters. A number of his ideas about the care of animals in shelters and programs by shelters are actually very good and most animal lovers and shelter managers who really care about animals would agree with him and do everything possible to implement those ideas.
HarfordLassie
12:26 pm on Monday, November 7, 2011
Part 3-
So where is the disconnect? The disconnect comes into play when Nathan tells his loyal followers that the one and only reason that shelters don't get to the level we would all like to see is shelter management who prefer to keep the "status quo". Nathan, a former prosecutor, uses his skill as an attorney, to turn all shelter management that don't embrace his "no-kill equation" into the bad guys, criminals who should be punished with expulsion from their jobs and public humiliation, so that new "no-kill" advocate volunteers can take over and bring in new management that embrace Nathan's philosophy. His followers target shelters around the country who still are still forced to use euthanasia as a means of population control, who have substandard facilities, who do not have veternarians and behavorists on site, and who do not have a TNR program. It doesn't matter if these shelters all have the same goals as Nathan, what matters is they aren't using Nathan's branded "no-kill equation". There is no distinction between shelters who commit those horrors on Nathan's page and shelters that do not. To the zealots that go around from city to city advocating for the "no-kill equation", the important thing is using Nathan's brand and nothing else.
HarfordLassie
12:26 pm on Monday, November 7, 2011
Part 4-
In every case I could find, followers spend much of their time "marketing" to the public in various cities that current shelter management are characters from a horror movie. They vilify them as uncaring people who torture and kill animals because they can. They publicly crucify people they have never met and know nothing about. If they can find a couple people with grudges, grievances or vendettas, they are recruited to help overthrow shelter management. They create public outrage and public demand for change. Politicians who want to be re-elected see the public outrage and join popular opinion. Before you know it, the shelter management is forced out and suddenly money starts flowing to the shelter for brand new, state of the art facilities, changes to existing laws to implement TNR, more volunteers and donations come in to help save the animals.
HarfordLassie
12:26 pm on Monday, November 7, 2011
Part 5-
In every case I could find there was never a spirit of cooperation between the "no-kill" advocates and shelters willing or actively working towards the very principles and programs the "no-kill" advocates However, they will embrace new management with equal or less experience than current management, who embrace the "no-kill equation", even though it might take the same number of years for them to reach their goals as the previous shelter management. In the world of the "no-kill equation" advocates, it's their way or the highway. In short, advocates of Nathan's "no-kill equation" go to various cities and create chaos, regardless of whether or not it's warranted. They refuse to discuss pros/cons of "no-kill" and other methods, they refuse to acknowledge failures of "no-kill", they refuse to be civil when their message is rejected. Most of all, they refuse to step up and actually do anything other than complain about their intended targets. So what is really important here to these foot soldiers who advocate for Nathan? The animals or buying what Nathan Winograd is selling, his own personal branded "no-kill equation"?
HarfordLassie
12:27 pm on Monday, November 7, 2011
Part 6-
I think we can all agree a state of the art facility, complete with competent professional veternarians and behaviorists, programs that encourage adoption, fostering, spay/neuter, responsible pet ownership, a decrease in the number of animals being euthanized and a network of caring individuals willing to take the responsibility of feral cats, is something we would all agree would be ideal. Would it surprise you to know that is exactly what the current management of HCHS is already working towards? .Much like the "no-kill" takeovers, new management at HCHS took control of the shelter and those not willing to work within their philosophy parted ways. Much like the "no-kill" takeovers, they had to rebuild databases and partnerships with the local community. Much like the "no-kill takeovers they have to deal with a substandard, crowded old building, the lack of a vet and behavorist, . Much like the "no-kill" takeovers immediate improvements were made for animal care, programs that they are able to implement immediately were started, and they have already secured funding for a state of the art new facility. Much like the "no-kill" takeovers, they are building new relationships in the community, building day by day and are accomplishing great things for the animals in their care, as well as the people who work there.
HarfordLassie
12:28 pm on Monday, November 7, 2011
Part 7-
Instead of recognizing them for what they have done and are continuing to do, they are still vilified, all because they don't embrace Nathan's own personal brand- "no-kill equation".
It really all comes down to "marketing". HCHS has an image problem, built from years of bad management, and the horrors left over from the last management that tried to implement "no-kill" that led to so much suffering and death for many animals in their care. They don't have touchy feely slogans like "Shelter of Hope" yet and the public pouring in to help with animal care, volunteers and donations because of crafty marketing campaign designed to create outrage. People don't know what the new management has accomplished because unlike the "no-kill" advocates that need constant public kudos and trolling internet sites to tell their stories and crucify the next shelter on their list, the management and staff at HCHS are devoting their time to actually working and improving HCHS, and building new relationships..
HarfordLassie
12:28 pm on Monday, November 7, 2011
Part 8-
If you aren't part of the solution, you're part of the problem. It's time to stop giving attention to radical advocates bowing at the altar of Nathan Winograd, and to put that attention on the great work HCHS's new management and staff are accomplishing to turn the shelter into something we can all be proud of. HCHS's management is leading the way to a better tomorrow. To those not willing to support their efforts and continue to vilify them, I say "if you can't run with the big dogs, stay off the porch"
Stacy Rawlings
1:10 pm on Monday, November 7, 2011
You've come to the same conclusion and opinion as I did regarding Nathan Winograd. He is a marketing genious alright, marketing himself, his books, his speaking engagements and his no kill equation. He is getting filthy rich off of this deception and while many many shelters who have adopted his equation have or are showing symptoms of imminent failure his followers are still out there attacking more shelters while his default answer as to why they are failing is that they simply were not following his plan to the letter... and its essentially the managements fault that their shelter was overcrowded, overcome by disease and in trouble financially since embracing bis no kill equation. I will never support the HSHC embracing anything associated with that Lunatic.
HarfordLassie
2:45 pm on Monday, November 7, 2011
The irony is Nathan uses standard BUSINESS principles of marketing! Imagine that, running his shelters like a business model!!
Stacy Rawlings
8:20 pm on Monday, November 7, 2011
No, what I find even more ironic is how the HOPE group took such vocal offense to David Fang speaking about running the shelter like a business, yet Winograd can use the same verbiage and he is a "God" to the No Kill Movement supporters. Double standards all the way around. LOL!
HarfordLassie
10:51 pm on Monday, November 7, 2011
Even more ironic is one of the topics we discussed at HCHS was marketing/image and how important it is to let the public know what is being accomplished. I suppose another reason why I appreciate the work the current management has accomplished is because they are approaching it as a business, weighing pros and cons of decisions, getting input from lots of sources- experts, pubic, employees, prioritizing projects based on time, money, resources and where you can get the most bang for the buck, instead of being a bull in a china shop doing things without a plan. There's an old management planning theory that says- "If you fail to plan, plan to fail"
Kimberly Kanely- Bearsch
2:32 pm on Monday, November 7, 2011
If HOPE and it's followers really want to help the animals at HSHC then they would get off their butts and get out to the shelter and offer to adopt, foster and/or support the animals.
That goes for all of us!
HarfordLassie
2:42 pm on Monday, November 7, 2011
I don't think it would be wise for HCHS to allow members of HOPE anywhere near their shelter or animals. Their open hostility and radical nature would be too much of a risk to take. If the rumors are true that are circulating they hijacked the HCHS page and used it fraudulently and refused to relinquish it, they are lucky they haven't been prosecuted. They would be better off trying to change regulations on feral cats and working on their own program for them separate from HCHS to address that problem, especially since that's a county health/nuisance issue and not something in the control of HCHS. I wouldn't hold my breath for them to do something positive that might actually help.
Sonja Hunn
8:11 pm on Monday, November 7, 2011
But, you know, Joan, you've got the right idea. Perhaps YOU should go and volunteer at the shelter. And I don't mean doing adoption events. I mean at the shelter, two or three times a week. You see folks, Joan thinks that because she talked to two people who were on their best behavior for three whole hours that she's got the scoop. She apparently considers herself to be so brilliant that she knows better than the eight or ten volunteers who worked directly with those two people in real-life situations for three YEARS. And, she didn't even bother to meet those experienced people. That's right - she's never met us. So, Joan, I suggest you stop flapping those abundant jowls of yours and put your money where your mouth is. Go volunteer two or three times a week for two or three years. And do make suggestions for improvements while you're there. I'm sure you'll find it very fulfilling and I'm sure they'll appreciate the heck out of your good work. When you've got that much experience under your belt, I'd love to read that blog. Don't worry - I won't be back anymore. But the thought occurred to me that it's time for your "research" to GET REAL.
Stacy Rawlings
8:26 pm on Monday, November 7, 2011
Well seeing how most people who will approve or disapprove of the idea of the Shelter going "No Kill" are average citizens of the county with their own opinions on these issues, I think Joan is actually a very valid representation of the citizens of the county who may someday be asked what they want for their Shelter. I bet very few of them have put volunteer time in at the shelter, but since this is their county and they are taxpayers too, should we discount their opinions as well and only leave opinions open to the people who have volunteered there or worked there as being valid and all knowing? That's just ridiculous. Everyone who has an opinion on this whether I find them valid or not, are just as valuable as mine or yours or anyone else's, why the attempts to make her opinion of what is going on here as a citizen any less valid than those who think they know everything from the inside out? Very narrow thinking...
Stacy Rawlings
8:29 pm on Monday, November 7, 2011
Joan, people who burn bridges can't go back and cross them again...
HarfordLassie
10:30 pm on Monday, November 7, 2011
One thing I've noticed about some of the people from HOPE is that they make a LOT of assumptions and think the world revolves around them, and only them. Because I didn't talk to HOPE, they assume I haven't talked to anyone who has worked/volunteered at the shelter before, during or since the transition to the current management. Their psychic network must be down. .
Stacy Rawlings
10:53 pm on Monday, November 7, 2011
Ms. Hunn, how do you know Joan isn't already volunteering at the shelter, why would you assume she does not? After all she has relayed here, I certainly wouldn't assume she isn't already or doesn't intend to.
HarfordLassie
11:39 pm on Monday, November 7, 2011
One last thing... When HOPE's Facebook page first went online Erika wrote at length about being asked to leave for what she had written on the HCHS Facebook page when posting as the shelter. I had also witnessed those posts on the HCHS page myself. Even though I don't know if Erika was the person who then hijacked the HCHS page, or someone else who had access, I was somewhat hesitant to get involved with HOPE in the event they were the people who had acted illegally. Many of the people in HOPE that I talked to seemed to be very nice, caring people but I kept running into the same thing- nobody was willing to be quoted....I didn't think it would be responsible to write about things from people were not willing to be quoted about things that were supposed to have taken place at HCHS.
Stacy Rawlings
11:08 pm on Monday, November 7, 2011
It's so easy to say "you don't know what goes on" or "You need to educate yourself more than you have thus far" as an excuse to degrade your opinion or stand on any issue at hand. To assume our neighbors are just ignorant to an experience, therefore can't make an informed decision or choice on where they stand is an easy out of civilized debate between one another. It basically ends any intelligent conversation because how can you continue when the other person obviously assumes you are too misinformed or brainwashed by the exposure you have had to the subject, to allow them to talk you into seeing it their way. They sabotage the entire debate and shut it down. Thus Circular Conversation... Circular discussion ....Pointless and frustrating. Example: If you don't agree with bringing no kill to Harford County Humane Society, you MUST hate animals and wish ills on them. What's the point in even speaking further with someone who says or thinks such a thing!
HarfordLassie
12:22 am on Tuesday, November 8, 2011
It wouldn't make any difference Stacy. Anyone could come into this discussion with a long distinguished career in shelter management but if they don't agree with Nathan's no-kill equation, they would be vilified.
Stacy Rawlings
11:38 pm on Monday, November 7, 2011
I am all for reducing the rate of euthanasia at any shelter, all shelters for that matter. I am adamantly against the No Kill movement. I have seen & continue to see the failures. I have seen first hand & heard many more stories about what happens to animal when this plan fails & it's a fate worse than death in my opinion. The resources it requires are simply not there, making plans & implementing programs to reduce these rates is one thing, to obligate a shelter to maintain a specific percentage of saves is unrealistic & sets them up for failure. We cannot possibly see into the future. How are we to assume that there will be the monetary resources or the voluntary resources there to meet the demands? We don't. Have you ever been in a shelter in trouble because they refuse to acknowledge that they have a specific amount of space for a specific number of animals & they exceed that number? It's a nightmare for the animals. Do you go door to door putting guns to citizens heads to make them foster these animals, or come & exercise them or take them to adoption events, convalesce them? There's only a specific number of citizens within any given county who are willing to take the time to volunteer & not all of them are interested in animals. I don't get why it's so imperative to some to embrace the No Kill model at the HSHC. I will fight it to the end if it becomes an issue, because I do love animals & I don't see that as being the answer to reducing the euth rates at all.
HarfordLassie
12:01 am on Tuesday, November 8, 2011
The interesting part about many of these "no kill" shelters is it's easier to do that when you aren't an open admission shelter. When you can turn down animals to intake that makes your odds of adopting the animals you decide to let in much better. They can say they are no-kill and at the same time turn away animals at the door for any reason at all. HCHS doesn't have that option.
Like you Stacy, I've found that no-kill and TNR work in some locations, and are failures in others. The excuse that management was a failure and not the equation doesn't make sense. Why? It's the same suppy/demand economic concepts that Nathan bases his marketing share on. Those dynamics change from location to location. Higher density areas, like cities, have more homes that are possible for adoptions. Less populated areas might already be at saturation point as far as the number of homes available. In the same area as HCHS there are a number of private rescue groups. Petsmart in Bel Air brings in animals from Animal Rescue in PA (last I heard). FARM sets up at Feed Plus. Best Friends Furever often fosters animals. We also have a number of responsible breeders of pure bred dogs in Harford County. So there are many sources to get an animal. They are all competing for the same "market share" Nathan talks about. All things are not equal as Nathan's figures would make it appear..
Brad Gerick
8:46 pm on Friday, November 11, 2011
I have been working in Annapolis lately and snapped this photo today. http://patch.com/A-nCTQ What do you all think about tying a dog to a parking meter in about 40-degree weather?